New rumor: Pentax "A" mount

rawr · 08-26-2013, 04:49 AM

I see nothing useful here. In my view, this concept simply complicates things for buyers of all stripes, and Pentax generally, rather than improving anything.

**Rondec** · 08-26-2013, 04:55 AM

I hate the idea of focus by wire, but the rest sounds good.

Asahiflex · 08-26-2013, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Rondec

I hate the idea of focus by wire, but the rest sounds good.

Neither do I but the Q uses the same focus by wire system. And of course the Q's mount is 100% electronic too. Maybe the A mount will be the same as the Q mount, only bigger (and probably with more contacts if the system needs it)?

JanG · 08-26-2013, 04:57 AM

Well, it sounds like a camera design that would leave us with all options from no VF over EVF to optical VF, K-Mount screw drive (the final way to enable screw drive AF on lenses with defective SDM?), K-Mount SDM, A-Mount etc. - and many of us with a bag full of adapters...

mecrox · 08-26-2013, 04:58 AM - **2 Likes**

Huh? Wouldn't it be simpler and possibly quite a lot cheaper to buy a conventional 36mp FF camera (soon to be 54mp quite possibly) and use crop mode for APS-C shots? VF overlays could deal with things like focus peaking and information. LV or pure EVF could be used via an app on an iPhone or iPad (neither had probably been invented when the idea of this proposed system was first sketched out). This would yield very high quality previews for subjects like macro and/or tripod shots.

It all sounds like another incredibly convoluted way of trying to keep K-mount users onside by getting them to buy into a system very few of them would want anyway (i.e. $2000-$3000 and over FF madness with very expensive lenses to match). New tech - high pixel count sensors and displays, on-sensor AF, smartphones and tablets, etc. - has likely rendered this project unnecessary. Sorry - I'll put my tinfoil hat back on.

No, I think I'll take it off again. "He raised the camera to his eye and pressed the shutter. Whoops. There was no shutter. Reaching into his left pocket, he took out a mirrorbox assembly and fitted it with a dull snick. Then he took an adapter from his right pocket and fitted it to the front of the mirrorbox. He felt for a lens in his left trouser pocket. Nothing. It was in the right pocket. He shifted his weight and carefully pulled out the lens and screwed it to the front of the mirrorbox assembly. Now, from an inside breast pocket, he extracted a motordrive assembly containing the camera's power supply. Five minutes later, he raise the camera to his eye again and pressed ... "

Clavius · 08-26-2013, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by rawr

I see nothing useful here. In my view, this concept simply complicates things for buyers of all stripes, and Pentax generally, rather than improving anything.

Really? With such a beast users could continue to use their K-mount glass while also enjoying the future "A" mount lenses at the same time. Whatever direction the future may have, mirrored or not, Pentax (and its users) would be ready, without sacrificing backwards compatibility. It's genius.

Only wondering how they'll WR the whole contraption. Maybe they just won't: WR fails to often to be taken seriously anyway.

Fogel70 · 08-26-2013, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Barry Pearson

I think sometimes companies try to move the "Overton Window". (Just as politicians do).

Rumours are made so extreme that they cause an adverse reaction. Then the launch is greeted with relief, in spite of the fact that before the rumour it would not have been acceptable.

But - I'll analyse that rumour with interest, trying not to be too judgmental to start with. Some people here think some of my thoughts are a bit OTT, but compared with that they are run-of-the-mill!

The problem with a DSLR adapter described like above is that there will be difficult to fit a FF mirror and OVF within the K-mount register distance. It might be possible if using a negative register distance mirrorless mount, so the mount for mirrorless lenses will sit further back on the camera than the sensor, but that will make a bad design for many reasons.

The reason why Leica could use a design like Visoflex was because they use a dedicated line of lenses for it, with much longer register distance than on any 35mm SLR. Visoflex use a register distance of ~70mm, so it's pretty much the total distance of Leica M + 35mm SLR. But even Leica has since long ago given up on Visoflex and are now using EVF + simple adapter to support non Leica M-mount lenses.

rawr · 08-26-2013, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

It's genius.

It's simply too complicated, from a technical, manufacturing, marketing etc perspective. Do a strong conventional FF DSLR first, then maybe experiment with such risky new contraptions.

Barry Pearson · 08-26-2013, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Really? With such a beast users could continue to use their K-mount glass while also enjoying the future "A" mount lenses at the same time. Whatever direction the future may have, mirrored or not, Pentax (and its users) would be ready, without sacrificing backwards compatibility. It's genius.

Only wondering how they'll WR the whole contraption. Maybe they just won't: WR fails to often to be taken seriously anyway.

Yes - and one feature of it is that you don't have to have it all. You buy what you need. Some would find the OVF essential, while others wouldn't.

Where would the problems with WR be? Aren't they really "more of the same" rather than totally new problems? I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole unless it had WR! I've used WR many times in dreadful conditions over the last 4 years without any problems.

It is the sort of design that would leave Ricoh/Pentax and users with a powerful and flexible system in 5 or 10 years time. But - it feels too complicated, especially on day-one. I wonder if there is an easier way of reaching the same end-point with simpler steps, yet more of them? I would love to see a roadmap for the launch of the components.

Chuckle! Even if it is a hoax, it is a very good one that makes me want one!

Clavius · 08-26-2013, 05:24 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by rawr

It's simply too complicated, from a technical, manufacturing, marketing etc perspective.

It's mighty impressive that you can tell that from a simple rumor that doesn't even contain any technical specifications, or pictures. Brilliant engineers happen to be able to come up with very clever solutions. Often solutions that are simpler then anyone would have thought.

Originally posted by rawr

Do a strong conventional FF DSLR first, then maybe experiment with such risky new contraptions.

But the tiny FF market already has 21 of those FF DSLRs to choose from. Hence, an FF DSLR would be more risky that the new contraption.

deus ursus · 08-26-2013, 05:32 AM - **1 Like**

OK, we have the K (King) mount, the Q (Queen) mount, and now possibly the A (Ace) mount. When will we see the J (Jack) mount? Or the Joker mount?

Uluru · 08-26-2013, 06:05 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by deus ursus

OK, we have the K (King) mount, the Q (Queen) mount, and now possibly the A (Ace) mount. When will we see the J (Jack) mount? Or the Joker mount?

Pentax obviously loves card tricks ... Or gambling ...

troenaas · 08-26-2013, 06:18 AM

Maybe they have an "Ace in the hole" :-)

Katmandude · 08-26-2013, 06:26 AM

can't get to the forums guys, too much traffic... XD

Asahiflex · 08-26-2013, 06:32 AM

Oops, I opened this thread with the best of intentions; it wasn't meant to set the PentaxOne.fr forum on fire.

08-26-2013, 04:58 AM - 2 Likes	#20
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Huh? Wouldn't it be simpler and possibly quite a lot cheaper to buy a conventional 36mp FF camera (soon to be 54mp quite possibly) and use crop mode for APS-C shots? VF overlays could deal with things like focus peaking and information. LV or pure EVF could be used via an app on an iPhone or iPad (neither had probably been invented when the idea of this proposed system was first sketched out). This would yield very high quality previews for subjects like macro and/or tripod shots. It all sounds like another incredibly convoluted way of trying to keep K-mount users onside by getting them to buy into a system very few of them would want anyway (i.e. $2000-$3000 and over FF madness with very expensive lenses to match). New tech - high pixel count sensors and displays, on-sensor AF, smartphones and tablets, etc. - has likely rendered this project unnecessary. Sorry - I'll put my tinfoil hat back on. No, I think I'll take it off again. "He raised the camera to his eye and pressed the shutter. Whoops. There was no shutter. Reaching into his left pocket, he took out a mirrorbox assembly and fitted it with a dull snick. Then he took an adapter from his right pocket and fitted it to the front of the mirrorbox. He felt for a lens in his left trouser pocket. Nothing. It was in the right pocket. He shifted his weight and carefully pulled out the lens and screwed it to the front of the mirrorbox assembly. Now, from an inside breast pocket, he extracted a motordrive assembly containing the camera's power supply. Five minutes later, he raise the camera to his eye again and pressed ... " Last edited by mecrox; 08-26-2013 at 05:42 AM.

08-26-2013, 06:05 AM - 1 Like	#27
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by deus ursus OK, we have the K (King) mount, the Q (Queen) mount, and now possibly the A (Ace) mount. When will we see the J (Jack) mount? Or the Joker mount? Pentax obviously loves card tricks ... Or gambling ... Last edited by Uluru; 08-26-2013 at 06:34 AM.

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08-26-2013, 04:49 AM	#16
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	I see nothing useful here. In my view, this concept simply complicates things for buyers of all stripes, and Pentax generally, rather than improving anything.

08-26-2013, 04:55 AM	#17
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	I hate the idea of focus by wire, but the rest sounds good.

08-26-2013, 04:56 AM	#18
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795 Original Poster	Originally posted by Rondec I hate the idea of focus by wire, but the rest sounds good. Neither do I but the Q uses the same focus by wire system. And of course the Q's mount is 100% electronic too. Maybe the A mount will be the same as the Q mount, only bigger (and probably with more contacts if the system needs it)?

08-26-2013, 04:57 AM	#19
JanG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Berlin, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 150	Well, it sounds like a camera design that would leave us with all options from no VF over EVF to optical VF, K-Mount screw drive (the final way to enable screw drive AF on lenses with defective SDM?), K-Mount SDM, A-Mount etc. - and many of us with a bag full of adapters...

08-26-2013, 04:58 AM	#21
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by rawr I see nothing useful here. In my view, this concept simply complicates things for buyers of all stripes, and Pentax generally, rather than improving anything. Really? With such a beast users could continue to use their K-mount glass while also enjoying the future "A" mount lenses at the same time. Whatever direction the future may have, mirrored or not, Pentax (and its users) would be ready, without sacrificing backwards compatibility. It's genius. Only wondering how they'll WR the whole contraption. Maybe they just won't: WR fails to often to be taken seriously anyway.

08-26-2013, 05:01 AM	#22
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Barry Pearson I think sometimes companies try to move the "Overton Window". (Just as politicians do). Rumours are made so extreme that they cause an adverse reaction. Then the launch is greeted with relief, in spite of the fact that before the rumour it would not have been acceptable. But - I'll analyse that rumour with interest, trying not to be too judgmental to start with. Some people here think some of my thoughts are a bit OTT, but compared with that they are run-of-the-mill! The problem with a DSLR adapter described like above is that there will be difficult to fit a FF mirror and OVF within the K-mount register distance. It might be possible if using a negative register distance mirrorless mount, so the mount for mirrorless lenses will sit further back on the camera than the sensor, but that will make a bad design for many reasons. The reason why Leica could use a design like Visoflex was because they use a dedicated line of lenses for it, with much longer register distance than on any 35mm SLR. Visoflex use a register distance of ~70mm, so it's pretty much the total distance of Leica M + 35mm SLR. But even Leica has since long ago given up on Visoflex and are now using EVF + simple adapter to support non Leica M-mount lenses.

08-26-2013, 05:13 AM	#23
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by Clavius It's genius. It's simply too complicated, from a technical, manufacturing, marketing etc perspective. Do a strong conventional FF DSLR first, then maybe experiment with such risky new contraptions.

08-26-2013, 05:16 AM	#24
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Clavius Really? With such a beast users could continue to use their K-mount glass while also enjoying the future "A" mount lenses at the same time. Whatever direction the future may have, mirrored or not, Pentax (and its users) would be ready, without sacrificing backwards compatibility. It's genius. Only wondering how they'll WR the whole contraption. Maybe they just won't: WR fails to often to be taken seriously anyway. Yes - and one feature of it is that you don't have to have it all. You buy what you need. Some would find the OVF essential, while others wouldn't. Where would the problems with WR be? Aren't they really "more of the same" rather than totally new problems? I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole unless it had WR! I've used WR many times in dreadful conditions over the last 4 years without any problems. It is the sort of design that would leave Ricoh/Pentax and users with a powerful and flexible system in 5 or 10 years time. But - it feels too complicated, especially on day-one. I wonder if there is an easier way of reaching the same end-point with simpler steps, yet more of them? I would love to see a roadmap for the launch of the components. Chuckle! Even if it is a hoax, it is a very good one that makes me want one!

08-26-2013, 05:24 AM - 1 Like	#25
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by rawr It's simply too complicated, from a technical, manufacturing, marketing etc perspective. It's mighty impressive that you can tell that from a simple rumor that doesn't even contain any technical specifications, or pictures. Brilliant engineers happen to be able to come up with very clever solutions. Often solutions that are simpler then anyone would have thought. Originally posted by rawr Do a strong conventional FF DSLR first, then maybe experiment with such risky new contraptions. But the tiny FF market already has 21 of those FF DSLRs to choose from. Hence, an FF DSLR would be more risky that the new contraption.

08-26-2013, 05:32 AM - 1 Like	#26
deus ursus Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Stårheim, Norway Posts: 658	OK, we have the K (King) mount, the Q (Queen) mount, and now possibly the A (Ace) mount. When will we see the J (Jack) mount? Or the Joker mount?

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08-26-2013, 06:18 AM	#28
troenaas Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 668	Maybe they have an "Ace in the hole" :-)

08-26-2013, 06:26 AM	#29
Katmandude Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 42	can't get to the forums guys, too much traffic... XD

08-26-2013, 06:32 AM	#30
Asahiflex Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,795 Original Poster	Oops, I opened this thread with the best of intentions; it wasn't meant to set the PentaxOne.fr forum on fire.