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08-30-2013, 10:49 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
Oooohh! That was a camera!

I had 2 LXs, plus a motordrive, bellows unit, various lenses, etc. Then in about 1991 my house was broken into and all my cameras and lenses were stolen!
I also had two(traded an '81 toward a K-5 and the '80 is somewhere in the garage). I was in Malaysia in '92 when someone attempted to steal it, but was stopped by a girl i was seeing. The second time it was stolen because the maid left my bathroom door open giving access to the next-door neighbor. Luckily, I had the camera repaired through Pentax USA and had written the serial number down and the camera was recovered from a pawnshop.

08-31-2013, 01:56 AM - 1 Like   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yep but Kunzite points to something else... coming in the supposedly coming body which is proper Video support if I decrypt correctly Kunzite thinking
My apologies for thinking encrypted
Indeed, video support is one obvious application for those continuous LED lights. I'm making no claims about some upcoming body, not knowing such in detail specs; but it's reasonably to believe there will be a camera to benefit those, in the not-so-distant future. I'm sure our "flash masters" would find them useful, even for stills.
Decrypting my point, we're talking about a feature useful for video but occasionally also for stills, not done before by any other camera maker (and I can't think of any major 3rd-party accessory maker, either). Thus, innovative.

The Optio WG's LEDs have a different usage, as a ring-flash. Pretty neat as well.
08-31-2013, 06:49 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
My apologies for thinking encrypted
Indeed, video support is one obvious application for those continuous LED lights. I'm making no claims about some upcoming body, not knowing such in detail specs; but it's reasonably to believe there will be a camera to benefit those, in the not-so-distant future. I'm sure our "flash masters" would find them useful, even for stills.
Decrypting my point, we're talking about a feature useful for video but occasionally also for stills, not done before by any other camera maker (and I can't think of any major 3rd-party accessory maker, either). Thus, innovative.
Not only video, no. A beam of continuous light was often a feature reserved for photographer's studios, or artist's studio with both northern and a roof window. With continuous LED light in a flashgun, our imagination takes a next level, and limitations about what a flash does, and what only studio light can do, change. And everything becomes far less complicated — instead of being fireworks technicians, photographers have a chance to become Rembrandts again and pre-imagine exactly how light sculpts the scene. We can tap into new light subtleties, especially in field work outside the studio, which answers why the WR is needed too.

What Pentax has done here, others will soon follow because it looks so obvious.

Last edited by Uluru; 08-31-2013 at 06:56 AM.
08-31-2013, 12:21 PM - 1 Like   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
a new mount is a good idea... a better idea is to have the new mount and offer an adapter for k-mount.
I'd trade multiple kidneys for a NEX sized Pentax ILC, with a K-mount adapter that has electrical- as well as a mechanical diaphragm coupling.

08-31-2013, 01:48 PM   #110
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Whose kidneys?
A new mount is never a good idea. Addressing a specific problem/business case by introducing a new mount/system might be... but not necessarily so.
09-02-2013, 07:28 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
A new mount is never a good idea. Addressing a specific problem/business case by introducing a new mount/system might be... but not necessarily so.
Hm! I've used Pentax SLRs for about 46 years. I think the "new" K-mount (after I had been using the screw-mount for nearly 10 years) was a good idea. Then some of the various tweaks (KA Auto-aperture, KAF Auto-focus) were also good ideas. Now I've started to use the Q-mount. I think that mount is a probably pretty good idea.

Over enough time, a new mount can be best for the company and most of its customers, although some won't agree at the time, if ever.
09-02-2013, 09:34 AM   #112
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Yeah, but did they just introduced a new mount, or addressed specific problems with it? (e.g. bayonet mount which is faster to use, can accommodate electric contacts and later AF)
Same for the Q-mount, didn't they do it because they needed a mount suitable for a small sensor MILC?

I'm trying here to promote the idea of starting with the problem, and see if we'll get to a new mount solution or not.
09-02-2013, 11:30 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Yeah, but did they just introduced a new mount, or addressed specific problems with it? (e.g. bayonet mount which is faster to use, can accommodate electric contacts and later AF)
Same for the Q-mount, didn't they do it because they needed a mount suitable for a small sensor MILC?

I'm trying here to promote the idea of starting with the problem, and see if we'll get to a new mount solution or not.
It depends on where you start. For example "they needed a mount suitable for a small sensor MILC" is only a problem if they had already decided to pursue a new opportunity of launching a "small sensor MILC".

Sometimes a good trick is to imagine yourself in a world 5 or 10 years in the future when the change has taken place, and (i) think of all the ways that the change has been exploited, and (ii) think of how they got there from here.

I have seen in these forums suggestions for a variety of ways that such a change can be exploited: better lens designs; lighter and/or smaller camera bodies; adapters for a wider variety of lens systems (including all K-mount lenses); exploiting better camera/lens interface technology. It could be a different world.

09-02-2013, 01:26 PM   #114
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Yes, the business opportunity is the starting point; and Pentax saw a business opportunity in making small sensor MILCs. They didn't start with "let's make a small mount and then we'll see"; but with "we can make and sell this kind or product".

Up to a point, pretty much everything from your list can be done with the K-mount, except for making an adapter necessary (which is regarded as highly desirable in some circles ). Some of it is not always better (e.g. there is a market for larger products). None of it is automatically gained with a new mount.
This is just an unbalanced way of already deciding the solution, and go looking for the problems it's supposedly going to solve. MrNewt wants a new mount; but what for?

By the way, CIPA published the July data; and from January to July, the DSLR:MILC ratio is 5:1 in units, and it reached 6:1 in value.
This reinforces my opinion that going MILC is nowhere near urgent for Pentax. I do think they'll get there, eventually; but the K-mount takes priority.
09-02-2013, 01:55 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
By the way, CIPA published the July data; and from January to July, the DSLR:MILC ratio is 5:1 in units, and it reached 6:1 in value.
This reinforces my opinion that going MILC is nowhere near urgent for Pentax. I do think they'll get there, eventually; but the K-mount takes priority.
Surely that looks back to what was sold, given what was available to be sold. And it includes some markets that Pentax may not be interested in.

What matters to Ricoh/Pentax is what they would sell given new products available to be sold. And that is a totally different story.

The world isn't divided into 2 sorts of people - those who would only buy dSLRs and those who would only buy MILCs. So the world isn't divided into 5 of the former for each of the latter.
09-02-2013, 02:30 PM   #116
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Surely the companies are adjusting the production levels to match market demand. Compared to the last year, the production was adjusted downwards, for example.

A complete story would take into account not only the potential market, but also the effort to go there, and the impact on other parts of the business (e.g. as opportunity costs). There is a long way before having the new products ready to be sold.
No sane company would ignore market data, resorting to guesswork and wishful thinking.

I was talking about 5:1 DSLR to MILC ratio, never mentioning people. Are you trying to dismiss factual data with a strawman?
09-02-2013, 03:24 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Surely the companies are adjusting the production levels to match market demand. Compared to the last year, the production was adjusted downwards, for example.

A complete story would take into account not only the potential market, but also the effort to go there, and the impact on other parts of the business (e.g. as opportunity costs). There is a long way before having the new products ready to be sold.
No sane company would ignore market data, resorting to guesswork and wishful thinking.

I was talking about 5:1 DSLR to MILC ratio, never mentioning people. Are you trying to dismiss factual data with a strawman?
The ratio is going to remain very skewed as long as the two biggest camera makers continue to not offer any large-sensor MILCs (that one Canon really doesn't count). If Canon and Nikon were only half as serious about that segment as Sony, the ratio would not be at all close to 5:1. Of course that begs the question why they haven't shown much interest yet.
09-02-2013, 03:33 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
The ratio is going to remain very skewed as long as the two biggest camera makers continue to not offer any large-sensor MILCs (that one Canon really doesn't count). If Canon and Nikon were only half as serious about that segment as Sony, the ratio would not be at all close to 5:1. Of course that begs the question why they haven't shown much interest yet.
They have the most to lose when the market moves away from mirror boxes. I'd be like Microsoft abandoning Windows to become a Linux distributor.
09-02-2013, 08:17 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
The ratio is going to remain very skewed as long as the two biggest camera makers continue to not offer any large-sensor MILCs (that one Canon really doesn't count). If Canon and Nikon were only half as serious about that segment as Sony, the ratio would not be at all close to 5:1. Of course that begs the question why they haven't shown much interest yet.
But the segment, the technology, hasn't been up to the demands of the customers who demanded what a D600 or D800 can produce. Does anyone say, really, that the problem with the D800 is that is isn't mirrorless, or doesn't have an EVF? Not at all, in fact both those things would decrease the value proposition that the D800 represents, for the simple reason that an EVF does not match a well done OVF. Canon just came out with a focus mechanism for aps-c sensors that is quick. The Sony ones take a bit more than half a stop all the time for focus. Half a stop. I'm thinking of spending $5k to gain a couple of stops on a lens. Throw in the 5100 or 3200 that Nikon sells, or the low price EOS, the K500, all with mirrors and OVF's, great value propositions. How much would I have to spend to get an EVF of any kind that would have the lag characteristics of those inexpensive OVF's? $3k?

It isn't that the big guys aren't paying attention, they are and they know that their whole product line could disappear in a whiff if they don't watch carefully. But they know the technology isn't there yet. When it is, they will be there.

By the way, a friend who just purchased the D7100, very nice IQ, focus mechanism that takes full advantage of his lightning quick 300 f2.8 lens. For a pretty good price. Where is the bottleneck, what drives him crazy? Processing speed. That is the limit that camera manufacturers are facing. How to get the processing power and speed into a small box, that will be able to be powered by a battery, and hang the whole thing on a strap around someone's neck. Small sensors make a big difference in processing demands, but are a compromise on IQ.

This will change in the coming years, but right now the price/performance curves still favor mirrors and dslr's.
09-02-2013, 08:30 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
But the segment, the technology, hasn't been up to the demands of the customers who demanded what a D600 or D800 can produce. Does anyone say, really, that the problem with the D800 is that is isn't mirrorless, or doesn't have an EVF? Not at all, in fact both those things would decrease the value proposition that the D800 represents, for the simple reason that an EVF does not match a well done OVF. Canon just came out with a focus mechanism for aps-c sensors that is quick. The Sony ones take a bit more than half a stop all the time for focus. Half a stop. I'm thinking of spending $5k to gain a couple of stops on a lens. Throw in the 5100 or 3200 that Nikon sells, or the low price EOS, the K500, all with mirrors and OVF's, great value propositions. How much would I have to spend to get an EVF of any kind that would have the lag characteristics of those inexpensive OVF's? $3k?

It isn't that the big guys aren't paying attention, they are and they know that their whole product line could disappear in a whiff if they don't watch carefully. But they know the technology isn't there yet. When it is, they will be there.

By the way, a friend who just purchased the D7100, very nice IQ, focus mechanism that takes full advantage of his lightning quick 300 f2.8 lens. For a pretty good price. Where is the bottleneck, what drives him crazy? Processing speed. That is the limit that camera manufacturers are facing. How to get the processing power and speed into a small box, that will be able to be powered by a battery, and hang the whole thing on a strap around someone's neck. Small sensors make a big difference in processing demands, but are a compromise on IQ.

This will change in the coming years, but right now the price/performance curves still favor mirrors and dslr's.
By "large-sensor MILC", I meant APS-C or larger.... not exclusively FF.

I'm not a big fan of EVFs but lag isn't really the pressing problem, IMHO. If it was, there would be constant complaints about every DSLR's live view mode lagging and I don't see those complaints anywhere. Not to mention all the other cameras out there that have nothing but LV for composing.
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