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08-28-2013, 12:19 PM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
In a very short amount of time:
1. the name Pentax disappeared online. (Pentax website, Pentax Facebook, etc all turning into Ricoh;
2. the company renamed itself from Pentax Ricoh Imaging to just Ricoh;
3. relabelled one of their most important product lines to not show Pentax anymore, and not show the Pentax-green stripe, but the Ricoh-red stripe;
4. removed the Pentax name from the latest point and shoot. (Announced today.)

What? You all think it's going to stop now suddenly? That's called denial.

And I think the fans have every right to complain when their brand is being but to sleep like that. It's not going to help, but it's their right.
The name on the camera has no impact on the photos that I take.





08-28-2013, 12:26 PM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
The name on the camera has no impact on the photos that I take.



True, but if the "Pentax" branding does disappear my clients will no longer associate the name Pentax with something that is still alive. Hence, I can no longer use my Pentax gear professionally.
08-28-2013, 12:34 PM   #288
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Fact-based criticism, constructive discussion, objective position - those are one thing. Making stuff up and asserting DOOM - over and ocer and over is just complaining. I think if we really want to be upset at the demise of a brand-identifier we should lament the passing of SMC - and I believe the labeling and color changes have more to do with breaking from the past association with Super Multi Coating to promote HD coating than any nefarious plans to gradually eliminate Pentax.

SMC Pentax-DA 40mm Limited (old) vs HD Pentax-DA 40mm Limited (new)

I guess Mr. Kawauchi could be an outright liar as recently as THIS MONTH. If he's telling the truth he said the Pentax brand is here to stay permanently

Link

And as far as the Pentax label on the DA primes, the only person who could really see that in its position was the person holding the camera. As if I had forgotten which brand of lens I had mounted.

Not that this will happen, but a KX/K2 style Judas window like the one under the NT in my Avatar showing the Apeture / Focal length conveniently printed on the lens barrel would be - I don't know - kinda cool in a throw-back sort of way.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-28-2013 at 12:51 PM.
08-28-2013, 12:43 PM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I guess Mr. Kawauchi could be an outright liar as recently as THIS MONTH. If he's telling the truth he said the Pentax brand is here to stay permanently

Link
Corporations never lie?! True, he said: "Pentax will always exist on the product level." Now, what does that mean exactly? On the product level could just well be that the pentax products that have been produced up until now will always remain Pentax.

08-28-2013, 12:48 PM   #290
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Wow, that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard all day.

If branding matters so much to you in the first place, why even shoot Pentax instead of Nikon or Canon? I guarantee you that if your clients require that you use an "alive" brand, you are doing yourself no favors by using Pentax. In fact, the brand Ricoh, through its deep presence in the office-space, is a far more recognizable brand at this point to the general public than Pentax is.

Or you could just rely on the quality of your work to sell your photos rather than fixating on brand.

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
True, but if the "Pentax" branding does disappear my clients will no longer associate the name Pentax with something that is still alive. Hence, I can no longer use my Pentax gear professionally.
08-28-2013, 12:55 PM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Corporations never lie?! True, he said: "Pentax will always exist on the product level." Now, what does that mean exactly? On the product level could just well be that the pentax products that have been produced up until now will always remain Pentax.
Oh for the love of Pete. This is why I made the post about complaining in an echo chamber in the first place.

I'm out.
08-28-2013, 01:03 PM   #292
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First, it is worth noting that this was a surprise announcement--we have not heard (i.e., been fed) any rumours about a refresh to the DA Limiteds. Perhaps worth bearing in mind for the future. As to the actual announcement, it was equal parts surprise and expected. Once again, we have a (re)release of a lens with minor updates (like the 100 Macro), one that requires the absolute minimum of investment in retooling, etc. (no optical design changes, no changes to the lens body except cosmetic, minor change to the aperture mechanism), just a different coating applied to the lens elements. They get a 'new' product (and a little more justification to their ever-increasing prices) without any significant additional outlay.

As to the benefits, well, I don't think they will be that significant--it really depends on how good the coatings they used before were. While Pentax calls it SMC, they still don't use the same in all lenses and some SMC lenses simply have higher quality coatings than others (and not always consistent to age and level of lens). Sadly, few review sites test light transmission, but Lenstip did a few and found that the DA17-70 lost about 0.3% per surface, the 43Ltd 0.4%, DA-L35 0.4%, the DFA100WR 0.5%, FA50 0.6%. Pentax marketing has always claimed that SMC reduces transmission loss to 0.2%. While I suppose I can understand not adding WR, as this would require more expensive retooling, I am rather disappointed that they did not at least add a gasket on the lens mount to prevent water ingress at least to the camera body (and which would not require a major retooling); the DA17-70 does this, and Sony (which does not have the WR bodies like Pentax) tends to do this too now. That they are updating them all now like this makes it much less likely that in recent years to come we will ever see these lenses with WR.

I still take this to be part of the holding pattern Pentax is currently in whilst Ricoh and Pentax try to merge together and to figure out what the direction is going to be in the future (lately we have finally even heard some statements to this effect by Ricoh/Pentax officers, that the transition hasn't exactly been smooth and there have been factions and internal debates on the future). That having been said, updating all the DA Limiteds does, I think, show a continued commitment not just to APS-C, but to the K mount.

Anyway, I'm just hoping for some clear-out deals on the old ones (or at least a drop in prices on the used market)
08-28-2013, 01:06 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Oh for the love of Pete. This is why I made the post about complaining in an echo chamber in the first place.

I'm out.
Don't argue. Just photobomb.




08-28-2013, 01:06 PM   #294
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@clavius
Can you go somewhere else please. You obviously have issues with the way Ricoh are taking their Pentax brand but I for one am bored with your negativity. I also do not understand why your clients are more interested in the branding of your tools than the finished result!

To those looking for DFA50 f/1.2s or DFA135 f/1.9s, not going to happen full stop. For the last 5 years or more, Pentax have designed small, beautifully engineered primes with a usable aperture baseline, they are not and unless there is a massive design philosophy about turn within Pentax, will not, deviate from this path. So you might as well save your breath and fingertips shouting for them. I would suggest that the next new prime lens will probably be in the 24mm to 30mm focal length and no wider than f/2.8 but there are numerous zooms to appear before that as shown on the lens roadmap.

I applaud Ricoh / Pentax for the update to the DA primes, it is an intelligent update and am waiting with much anticipation for the K-5 II successor which will have been designed to utilise to the maximum this latest generation of optics.
S! and Regards
08-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #295
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Wheatfield I, near Hampton Poyle, Oxfordshire

The vast majority of all my photos since 2007 have been taken with the DA Limiteds - probably 90 per cent or more. This one was taken with the 21mm on Monday. One of these lenses and a K series camera ( I used the K-01 here) are ideal companions for a long country walk.
08-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #296
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Let's just be clear that WR does not mean SCUBA.
08-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote

Wheatfield I, near Hampton Poyle, Oxfordshire

The vast majority of all my photos since 2007 have been taken with the DA Limiteds - probably 90 per cent or more. This one was taken with the 21mm on Monday. One of these lenses and a K series camera ( I used the K-01 here) are ideal companions for a long country walk.
Nice! K-01 + DA21 is a great pair!
08-28-2013, 01:59 PM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by robbiec Quote
@clavius
I also do not understand why your clients are more interested in the branding of your tools than the finished result!
Brand recognition by clients is very important. A lot of the clients that I serve still remember Pentax as one of worlds best optics manufacturers. Customer is king. A few required me to shoot FF, so I go out and buy a Canon 5DMKII, simple. Photography is one thing, but knowing your customers is just plain smart business in any business. They do teach you that when you take photography classes you know. At least, they did in my time.
08-28-2013, 02:04 PM   #299
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I don't think most of my clients have any idea what brand camera I shoot with or would care if they did.

Last edited by mattb123; 08-28-2013 at 02:19 PM.
08-28-2013, 02:16 PM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Brand recognition by clients is very important.
If you really, truly mean that I empathize with you - really, I do. A major part of your business identity is changing and you have no control over the change - you are entirely dependent on what Ricoh decides it wants Pentax to be, and that might change the channel of your tools' future, while your business channel perforce cannot change.

I just lived through a similar, painful process in my business, that I have built over the last 30 years. My parent company name, business processes, products, visual identifiers, collateral material, brand names, locations, services and virtually everything else changed over a 2 year period. I complained daily - loudly, repeatedly, up and down the corporate ladder - until one day I just stopped. I decided, and I stopped. At the same moment I stopped making everyone else around me unhappy, too.

In the end my clients do business with me, not with my company. They're dependent on me to know where to tell the company to take a hike, and on how I adapt to the change and implement new opportunities and recover from lost systems in a way that serves them best.

Go ahead and vent - if it serves you. But I guarantee you will lose your clients if you approach every business assignment lamenting the loss of your old identity.

Last edited by monochrome; 08-28-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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