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09-15-2013, 09:30 PM   #481
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I don't think one can WR the DA Limiteds without adding bulk and dealing with the quick-shift.
I dont mind no quick shift if I can get WR Maybe Ricoh doesnt share the same view though

09-15-2013, 10:51 PM   #482
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Are Leica lenses weather sealed?
09-15-2013, 11:51 PM   #483
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
Are Leica lenses weather sealed?
Nope. Never been. Nor the camera bodies.
And photographers were taking Leica cameras and lenses through rain, snow and torture, war zones, bringing back amazing and most iconic images in the history of photography.

So what we witness today with all these impossible requests, is nothing but an excuse, to justify one's lack of commitment to stop crying but be imaginative and do the work.
09-16-2013, 12:13 AM - 2 Likes   #484
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nope. Never been. Nor the camera bodies.
And photographers were taking Leica cameras and lenses through rain, snow and torture, war zones, bringing back amazing and most iconic images in the history of photography.

So what we witness today with all these impossible requests, is nothing but an excuse, to justify one's lack of commitment to stop crying but be imaginative and do the work.
No. It comes from the experience of standing in damp weather in the mountains or near a waterfall and not being able to take a photo because lens and lcd on the body both was foggy. With regard to Leica: Old Leicas were simple, mechanic things, it is the electronics in modern dslrs that warrant extra concern. If I am somewhere, say India or Laos I simply want to minimize the risk that my gear stop working.

Wrt to Limiteds I think a lot of them live an easy life in the cupboard. I am always curious how all lenses in the for sale section are "as new". My lenses surely don't look as new any more.

09-16-2013, 12:41 AM   #485
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nope. Never been. Nor the camera bodies.
And photographers were taking Leica cameras and lenses through rain, snow and torture, war zones, bringing back amazing and most iconic images in the history of photography.

So what we witness today with all these impossible requests, is nothing but an excuse, to justify one's lack of commitment to stop crying but be imaginative and do the work.
The Leica M (240) is marketed as splash-proof. Leica Camera AG - Photography - LEICA M
QuoteQuote:
Thanks to the many years of experience gathered by our engineers in the construction of camera bodies, the new Leica M is built without compromise for maximum stability and perfect sealing. Its top and base plates are machined from solid brass, and its full-metal body is manufactured in one piece from high-strength magnesium alloy. Specially designed rubber seals protect the camera body against dust and water spray. The glass covering plate of its high-resolution monitor screen is manufactured from particularly tough and scratch-resistant Corning® Gorilla® glass. All this makes the Leica M particularly resilient and helps guarantee it a long and reliable working life.
09-16-2013, 01:39 AM   #486
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It's been said before in this thread, but if you're plodding around in inclement conditions, why do you have a prime lens mounted to your sensitive electronic camera anyway? Aren't the odds excellent that you'll want/need to change lenses at some point, thus exposing everything to the elements? WR seems mostly useful for zooms or macros, to me. Could they keep the DA35 Ltd tiny and light with all the internal seals (not to mention a motor)? Keep these wonderful lenses small, light, and somewhat affordable, please.
09-16-2013, 01:51 AM   #487
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
It's been said before in this thread, but if you're plodding around in inclement conditions, why do you have a prime lens mounted to your sensitive electronic camera anyway? Aren't the odds excellent that you'll want/need to change lenses at some point, thus exposing everything to the elements? WR seems mostly useful for zooms or macros, to me. Could they keep the DA35 Ltd tiny and light with all the internal seals (not to mention a motor)? Keep these wonderful lenses small, light, and somewhat affordable, please.
Your thinking is incorrect.

People who use one prime (and there are many) might only use one and only prime.
09-16-2013, 01:53 AM   #488
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
It's been said before in this thread, but if you're plodding around in inclement conditions, why do you have a prime lens mounted to your sensitive electronic camera anyway? Aren't the odds excellent that you'll want/need to change lenses at some point, thus exposing everything to the elements? WR seems mostly useful for zooms or macros, to me. Could they keep the DA35 Ltd tiny and light with all the internal seals (not to mention a motor)? Keep these wonderful lenses small, light, and somewhat affordable, please.
I second that. One more thing though: When you need WR, the atmosphere is laden with water drops / snow / dust particles, etc, then there is no benefit in the extra resolution obtained from using a prime. The Atmosphere will soften up the image anyway. So you can just as well use a super/ultrazoom and prevent the need for lens swaps alltogether.

If they have to increased the size of the limiteds, then "making them faster" is a much better reason then adding WR.

Of course, some zoom lenses to compliment the current WR offerings would be very nice. A WR zoomlens from X to 18mm would be very sweet.


Last edited by Clavius; 09-16-2013 at 02:08 AM.
09-16-2013, 02:34 AM   #489
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
It's been said before in this thread, but if you're plodding around in inclement conditions, why do you have a prime lens mounted to your sensitive electronic camera anyway? Aren't the odds excellent that you'll want/need to change lenses at some point, thus exposing everything to the elements? WR seems mostly useful for zooms or macros, to me. Could they keep the DA35 Ltd tiny and light with all the internal seals (not to mention a motor)? Keep these wonderful lenses small, light, and somewhat affordable, please.
Because when I leave the door for a trip it is for weeks or months and I have to consider closely what I bring - I don't have an assistant to carry all that gear. I much prefer primes for general use. I have both the 12-24 and the 21 ltd so I have to pick one to take with me in the backpack, and I just don't enjoy using the zoom. I also expect the simpler construction of primes make them less likely to stop working.

Your points are perfectly valid of course. On the other hand, if I am to buy two big general zooms anyway, then Pentax looses its relevance for me and I would benefit from better support options from Canikon (as in being able to buy a new lens if the old one is toast). I have travelled a lot in India and SE Asia and you can find a dealer or two in Bangkok, Singapore and KL but apart from that Pentax is not present. I realize my use is beyond what 99% here is doing. If Ricoh are serious about that "adventure" tag, they could call me though, because I am living it and have done so for a handfull of years ;-) (travelling around the world on a bicycle) Really, what I suggest is that Ricoh extends the DA* line with two offerings wider than 40mm. I don't see why that would be controversial and I think it is more relevant than making more tiny Limiteds. In particular since I don't see size being a major selling point in the future. Even if those Limiteds look nice on the shelf.

But actually, none of this is something that is causing sleepless nights for me. I - and others I am sure - is watching these threads to see if there are indications that Ricoh will address the wants I have. For two years very little have happened and those two years follows other two years under HOYA management where next to nothing DLSR-related happened. Unlike many here, I have no sentimental reasons for staying with Pentax but I would hate to have to change system because I hate buying/selling stuff and I don't have any desire to spend hours and days examining Nikon and Canon and their relative pros and cons.
09-16-2013, 02:35 AM   #490
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I don't think everyone always bring a weather sealed zooms when shooting, so the only alternative if weather change might be stop shooting. If one can continue shooting with only one WR prime lens, it's still a big advantage.

WR sealings don't add much bulk to a lens. A few mm added to the diameter and 5-10 g extra weight might be enough.
D FA 100 WR is not a massive lens. How much smaller could that have been done without WR?
09-16-2013, 08:32 AM   #491
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
It's been said before in this thread, but if you're plodding around in inclement conditions, why do you have a prime lens mounted to your sensitive electronic camera anyway? Aren't the odds excellent that you'll want/need to change lenses at some point, thus exposing everything to the elements? WR seems mostly useful for zooms or macros, to me. Could they keep the DA35 Ltd tiny and light with all the internal seals (not to mention a motor)? Keep these wonderful lenses small, light, and somewhat affordable, please.
In such situations I carry two bodies

WRT to limiteds I use my DA 40 quite a bit. Having no weight in front of the camera is really liberating, as there is no need to balance.

Also good point on DA WR 100... that lens truly is a limited in all sense of the word except pancake.

For WR I actually use it more as a failsafe than an excuse to keep on shooting. I've only used my WR lens in actual blizzard once, in six years of DSLR ownership. It's really nice to know that in the event that I get caught in the rain, I can angle my camera setup downwards and be relatively secure that exposing my camera's back to the rain will be ok. Lenses are comparatively simple things and as long as I dont keep zooming / focusing in and out I dont think that much water will get in anyway. For me WR is one of those things that will encourage you to go out and shoot, rather than staying inside because the weather looks like it might rain sometime today. Just like small camera / lens sizes (if it's too heavy you probably dont want to take it).

Last edited by Andi Lo; 09-16-2013 at 08:37 AM.
09-16-2013, 08:42 AM   #492
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FWIW, I shot this demonstration in the rain using mostly my FA35. In some of the shots, one can see the droplets coming down. It got wet, no ill effects. Kept it shielded as much as possible.

DELUGE PHOTO: Münster: Keinenmeter

You guys know that you can do what the pros do and simply wrap the lens and part of the body (if not, the whole thing) with a plastic bag, right?
09-16-2013, 09:26 AM - 1 Like   #493
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
FWIW, I shot this demonstration in the rain using mostly my FA35. In some of the shots, one can see the droplets coming down. It got wet, no ill effects. Kept it shielded as much as possible.

DELUGE PHOTO: Münster: Keinenmeter

You guys know that you can do what the pros do and simply wrap the lens and part of the body (if not, the whole thing) with a plastic bag, right?
Sometimes I'm too lazy to pack a plastic bag + rubber band I will if I have to do a paid shoot though.

Besides it's ugly, and K10d looks so cool with snow all over it.

I think sometimes having WR will mean you get the shot that you wouldn't get otherwise if you hesitate exposing it. It's like the argument of having a wider aperture even if you dont use it much, It's there when you need it.
09-16-2013, 11:03 AM   #494
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Details; HD coated lens elements have a different reflective index and look 'more invisible', or more transparent. They 'suck you inside' so to speak. Markings are simplified, only one colour used, writing is a bit different so the feel of quality metal construction is even more visually enhanced. Lenses were brand new, well lubricated, and it seemed they give a bit different response in manual focusing. DA15 and DA70 feel similar, DA40 feels better than SMC (at least my copy of it, which was brand new anyway).
However, I had so little time allowed, rep breathing above my neck, so I didn't check the lens contact pins! I totally forgot about it.
Thank You, we hope to see IQ improvement though
09-16-2013, 11:17 AM   #495
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QuoteOriginally posted by H. Sapiens Quote
Because when I leave the door for a trip it is for weeks or months and I have to consider closely what I bring - I don't have an assistant to carry all that gear. I much prefer primes for general use. I have both the 12-24 and the 21 ltd so I have to pick one to take with me in the backpack, and I just don't enjoy using the zoom. I also expect the simpler construction of primes make them less likely to stop working.

Your points are perfectly valid of course. On the other hand, if I am to buy two big general zooms anyway, then Pentax looses its relevance for me and I would benefit from better support options from Canikon (as in being able to buy a new lens if the old one is toast). I have travelled a lot in India and SE Asia and you can find a dealer or two in Bangkok, Singapore and KL but apart from that Pentax is not present. I realize my use is beyond what 99% here is doing. If Ricoh are serious about that "adventure" tag, they could call me though, because I am living it and have done so for a handfull of years ;-) (travelling around the world on a bicycle) Really, what I suggest is that Ricoh extends the DA* line with two offerings wider than 40mm. I don't see why that would be controversial and I think it is more relevant than making more tiny Limiteds. In particular since I don't see size being a major selling point in the future. Even if those Limiteds look nice on the shelf.

But actually, none of this is something that is causing sleepless nights for me. I - and others I am sure - is watching these threads to see if there are indications that Ricoh will address the wants I have. For two years very little have happened and those two years follows other two years under HOYA management where next to nothing DLSR-related happened. Unlike many here, I have no sentimental reasons for staying with Pentax but I would hate to have to change system because I hate buying/selling stuff and I don't have any desire to spend hours and days examining Nikon and Canon and their relative pros and cons.
The DA Limited design philosophy is compact, lightweight primes optimized for APS-C. They are pancakes or as close as one can get in certain FL's.

WR and wider apertures would almost certainly take away this design philosophy. HIgh ISO sensors obviate some of the need for very large apertures and we are in an era where form factor is a key measure of the camera, lens included. Small is what will keep APS-C viable.

Pentax appears to support 2 design philosophy:

1) The rugged, WR line in bodies and lenses.

2) The compact, optimized primes.

Two strategies is smart for a company trying to hold its user base and each the most customers. Plan and Plan B.

I'm not sure what you're arguing about.
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