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09-16-2013, 11:26 AM   #496
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The limites, in many cases, are also limited by Pentax's desire to have those 49mm filter threads, or thereabouts. That severely limits speed in certain cases.

09-16-2013, 12:54 PM   #497
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
The limites, in many cases, are also limited by Pentax's desire to have those 49mm filter threads, or thereabouts. That severely limits speed in certain cases.
Mmmm ? Zzzzzz

Yeah Sigma 28/1.8 is nice example of what a big filter thread brings...
09-16-2013, 08:49 PM   #498
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yeah Sigma 28/1.8 is nice example of what a big filter thread brings...
In the case of the Sigma 28/1.8 EX it brings excellent IQ, with very close focusing ability and full-frame capability.
This is one of my most used and most loved lenses.

I'm rather sure that if there were a way to get the same results (e.g., regarding vignetting) by using less material or making the lens smaller then Sigma's engineers would have grabbed the chance.

Do you know more about lens design than Sigma's engineers do?
09-16-2013, 09:40 PM   #499
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nope. Never been. Nor the camera bodies.
And photographers were taking Leica cameras and lenses through rain, snow and torture, war zones, bringing back amazing and most iconic images in the history of photography.

So what we witness today with all these impossible requests, is nothing but an excuse, to justify one's lack of commitment to stop crying but be imaginative and do the work.
Fair enough, but the Leicas that were in the hands of Capa (& his likes) on the beaches of Normandy, in Spain, in Indochina, etc., and which brought back an awful lot of those iconic images.....well, those Leicas had a whole lot less of electronics and electro motors that blow their brains out over a single drop of water or grain of sand....

Just sayin' ...

[Edited: realized that I'd embarrassingly added a superfluous p to Capa)


Last edited by tclausen; 09-16-2013 at 10:31 PM.
09-16-2013, 09:45 PM   #500
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Fair enough, but the Leicas that were in the hands of Cappa (& his likes) on the beaches of Normandy, in Spain, in Indochina, etc., and which brought back an awful lot of those iconic images.....well, those Leicas had a whole lot less of electronics and electro motors that blow their brains out over a single drop of water or grain of sand....

Just sayin' ...
Yes, but that is not Leica's problem; that is the problem of today's digital camera industry that cannot design a camera that isn't an electronic gizmo and as complicated to use as hell, and that doesn't have, for example, sealed most important parts of it. Unless you are into underwater camera market, there isn't a single camera that is made as such.
09-16-2013, 10:09 PM   #501
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Fair enough, but the Leicas that were in the hands of Cappa (& his likes) on the beaches of Normandy, in Spain, in Indochina, etc., and which brought back an awful lot of those iconic images.....well, those Leicas had a whole lot less of electronics and electro motors that blow their brains out over a single drop of water or grain of sand....

Just sayin' ...
Not to mention, if they were doing this professionally, they either had sponsorship, or a company that was underwriting maintenance and repairs, OR tax writeoffs for business expenses to send the lenses in for cleaning and repairs.
09-16-2013, 10:22 PM   #502
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Yes, but that is not Leica's problem; that is the problem of today's digital camera industry that cannot design a camera that isn't an electronic gizmo and as complicated to use as hell, and that doesn't have, for example, sealed most important parts of it. Unless you are into underwater camera market, there isn't a single camera that is made as such.
Well, in fairness, it is rather hard to build a digital camera that isn't an "electronic gizmo", that kinda comes with the territory ('cept if you have come up with a sensor and storage not requiring power...in which case, can I come to your nobel ceremony )

That said, I am /not/ disagreeing with you on, at least somewhat, and at least with some of what you're saying regarding gizmo's....I use about 1% of the functionalities of my digital cameras: always shoot in RAW, always use spot-metering, (almost) always bracket +/- 2, and always either HyperAv or M, and shot MF film for so long that I've gotten used to "focus and recompose", thus, center-point AF only (although in honesty, the K-01 is making me play with AF points outside the strict center) and in the lowest ISO possible. So, every other button on the camera, for features other than these, are just a potential point of failure that should be eliminated, and every extra function that the camera can do is just something adding transistors to the circuit and consumes precious battery

So, my dream Pentax would be K-01 sized, with a single good AF sensor, a spot meter, two wheels (shutter/aperture), switch between HyperAV/M/off, and a green button. It'd always shoot in ISO 64 or 25 (to emulate you-know-what) and it'd always bracket +/- 2. So few mechanical buttons, so few points that can fail, it'd be robust.....Pentax should really build that, I guess that it'd cost about a bazillion Euros a piece, since they'd sell exactly two.....my primary and my backup body

Cameras today are gizmo's because the photographers today are much much more diverse than we were back when we bought Olympus OM-1's (which you can also drag through the mud, I confirm) or Leica II/III. I think that Leica /is/ trying to resist with some of their M-series, although they, too, are sliding down that slope somewhat.....

But you are - kinda - contradicting yourself also. Today's modern camera industry is perfectly capable of designing nice and sealed cameras, cf. Heie's abuse of his K5.....and other brands, too, can and do build well-sealed cameras. It's just that the electronics and electro-motors in today's cameras are extremely sensitive to water and dust, and therefore today's cameras /require/ environmental sealing where yesterdecade's cameras didn't. A drop of water on the wrong part of a circuit board vs. a drop of water on any part of a mechanical gear.....
09-16-2013, 10:30 PM   #503
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Not to mention, if they were doing this professionally, they either had sponsorship, or a company that was underwriting maintenance and repairs, OR tax writeoffs for business expenses to send the lenses in for cleaning and repairs.
Today, probably yes. In the Spanish war, I honestly do not know what the "corporate structure and context" looked like for war reporters like Capa....interesting topic, though, "war photography through the times"....

I'd think that one thing was a given, when debarking on the front then, there was no assumed air-lift out at the end of each workday, to get your gear CLAed, charge batteries, etc. You'd land with the troops and what gear (camera & film) you/d expect that you'd need until the end of the war or the end of your life (whichever came first), and it'd just have to be good enough until then.

Makes me occasionally wonder...it's not uncommon to see perfectly working camera bodies from the 2nd WW and before...in 70 years time, how will our DSLRs and EVIL cameras fare....?

09-16-2013, 10:36 PM   #504
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
...
Makes me occasionally wonder...it's not uncommon to see perfectly working camera bodies from the 2nd WW and before...in 70 years time, how will our DSLRs and EVIL cameras fare....?
:
You mean something like this?
Super special leica

09-16-2013, 10:39 PM   #505
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
:
You mean something like this?
Super special leica
Sorta-kinda...that's an M4, a relatively modern Leica, all said and done Also, it's in good cosmetic shape (in eBay terminology "Like new, almost mint!") so I have no doubts that that it'll need at most a CLA and be off to take pretty pictures once more.
09-16-2013, 10:42 PM   #506
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Makes me occasionally wonder...it's not uncommon to see perfectly working camera bodies from the 2nd WW and before...in 70 years time, how will our DSLRs and EVIL cameras fare....?
They won't. Those cams from WWI/II and other places are still around now because they had no electronics or electrical devices within. Purely mechanical, in most cases. They were also rebuilt from time to time, during an era where shops could even do it right down the road from your Hell's Kitchen apartment.

The pure nature of digital photography gives it a finite life, not only in technology (and it MUST be stressed that we are only in the beginning of the digital era), but in longevity. I is imaginable that someone with a parts donor junkyard can keep some working for decades, but they will be far and few. However, I expect 5DII/III cams to be out there for decades, partly due to their sales volume and pro use, as well as studio use in the movie industry, where the items are relatively babied between uses, in climate-controlled storage rooms and cases, plus they are the likely ones to have a parts junkyard for them.
09-16-2013, 10:45 PM   #507
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Sorta-kinda...that's an M4, a relatively modern Leica, all said and done Also, it's in good cosmetic shape (in eBay terminology "Like new, almost mint!") so I have no doubts that that it'll need at most a CLA and be off to take pretty pictures once more.
It's only 46 years young. Will be probably around for another 46 years too.
Leica MP is one purely mechanical camera still produced; would be good to have on of those, just for the sake of future generations.
09-16-2013, 10:49 PM   #508
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
They won't. Those cams from WWI/II and other places are still around now because they had no electronics or electrical devices within. Purely mechanical, in most cases. They were also rebuilt from time to time, during an era where shops could even do it right down the road from your Hell's Kitchen apartment.

The pure nature of digital photography gives it a finite life, not only in technology (and it MUST be stressed that we are only in the beginning of the digital era), but in longevity. I is imaginable that someone with a parts donor junkyard can keep some working for decades, but they will be far and few. However, I expect 5DII/III cams to be out there for decades, partly due to their sales volume and pro use, as well as studio use in the movie industry, where the items are relatively babied between uses, in climate-controlled storage rooms and cases, plus they are the likely ones to have a parts junkyard for them.
Well, the question was rhetorical, but I agree with you.

Btw., "rebuild" of old mechanical cameras isn't actually needed - an occasional CLA is sufficient, I've got (admittedly not WW2-vintage, but 1972-vintage - so, say, only 40 years old...but then again, not Leica either) mechanical workhorse sitting around that's never gotten anything but light-seals replaced, gunk removed, and some graphite lube added.....

My *istD still is going strong, though, so it's a quarter of the way there already, eh?
09-16-2013, 10:52 PM   #509
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It's only 46 years young. Will be probably around for another 46 years too.
Leica MP is one purely mechanical camera still produced; would be good to have on of those, just for the sake of future generations.
I was just about to ask which "fully mechanical" cameras actually were still in production, you beat me to it. So the MP - check, I'll add "buy Leica MP" to my list riiight below "win the lottery"

Is it really the only one left in that category? Other than LF/View cameras, of course? That's really sad...
09-16-2013, 10:58 PM   #510
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
I was just about to ask which "fully mechanical" cameras actually were still in production, you beat me to it. So the MP - check, I'll add "buy Leica MP" to my list riiight below "win the lottery"

Is it really the only one left in that category? Other than LF/View cameras, of course? That's really sad...
Why? The world has resoundingly moved on. Even film is harder to obtain now (along with questions of how environmentally sound film manufacturing and developing is).

There are still millions of film cams out there that hit the selling block for cheap on fleabay, for instance, so we'll all do ok.

Not everything needs to be preserved.
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