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09-16-2013, 02:35 AM   #511
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I don't think everyone always bring a weather sealed zooms when shooting, so the only alternative if weather change might be stop shooting. If one can continue shooting with only one WR prime lens, it's still a big advantage.

WR sealings don't add much bulk to a lens. A few mm added to the diameter and 5-10 g extra weight might be enough.
D FA 100 WR is not a massive lens. How much smaller could that have been done without WR?

09-16-2013, 08:32 AM   #512
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
It's been said before in this thread, but if you're plodding around in inclement conditions, why do you have a prime lens mounted to your sensitive electronic camera anyway? Aren't the odds excellent that you'll want/need to change lenses at some point, thus exposing everything to the elements? WR seems mostly useful for zooms or macros, to me. Could they keep the DA35 Ltd tiny and light with all the internal seals (not to mention a motor)? Keep these wonderful lenses small, light, and somewhat affordable, please.
In such situations I carry two bodies

WRT to limiteds I use my DA 40 quite a bit. Having no weight in front of the camera is really liberating, as there is no need to balance.

Also good point on DA WR 100... that lens truly is a limited in all sense of the word except pancake.

For WR I actually use it more as a failsafe than an excuse to keep on shooting. I've only used my WR lens in actual blizzard once, in six years of DSLR ownership. It's really nice to know that in the event that I get caught in the rain, I can angle my camera setup downwards and be relatively secure that exposing my camera's back to the rain will be ok. Lenses are comparatively simple things and as long as I dont keep zooming / focusing in and out I dont think that much water will get in anyway. For me WR is one of those things that will encourage you to go out and shoot, rather than staying inside because the weather looks like it might rain sometime today. Just like small camera / lens sizes (if it's too heavy you probably dont want to take it).

Last edited by Andi Lo; 09-16-2013 at 08:37 AM.
09-16-2013, 08:42 AM   #513
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FWIW, I shot this demonstration in the rain using mostly my FA35. In some of the shots, one can see the droplets coming down. It got wet, no ill effects. Kept it shielded as much as possible.

DELUGE PHOTO: Münster: Keinenmeter

You guys know that you can do what the pros do and simply wrap the lens and part of the body (if not, the whole thing) with a plastic bag, right?
09-16-2013, 09:26 AM - 1 Like   #514
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
FWIW, I shot this demonstration in the rain using mostly my FA35. In some of the shots, one can see the droplets coming down. It got wet, no ill effects. Kept it shielded as much as possible.

DELUGE PHOTO: Münster: Keinenmeter

You guys know that you can do what the pros do and simply wrap the lens and part of the body (if not, the whole thing) with a plastic bag, right?
Sometimes I'm too lazy to pack a plastic bag + rubber band I will if I have to do a paid shoot though.

Besides it's ugly, and K10d looks so cool with snow all over it.

I think sometimes having WR will mean you get the shot that you wouldn't get otherwise if you hesitate exposing it. It's like the argument of having a wider aperture even if you dont use it much, It's there when you need it.

09-16-2013, 11:03 AM   #515
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Details; HD coated lens elements have a different reflective index and look 'more invisible', or more transparent. They 'suck you inside' so to speak. Markings are simplified, only one colour used, writing is a bit different so the feel of quality metal construction is even more visually enhanced. Lenses were brand new, well lubricated, and it seemed they give a bit different response in manual focusing. DA15 and DA70 feel similar, DA40 feels better than SMC (at least my copy of it, which was brand new anyway).
However, I had so little time allowed, rep breathing above my neck, so I didn't check the lens contact pins! I totally forgot about it.
Thank You, we hope to see IQ improvement though
09-16-2013, 11:17 AM   #516
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QuoteOriginally posted by H. Sapiens Quote
Because when I leave the door for a trip it is for weeks or months and I have to consider closely what I bring - I don't have an assistant to carry all that gear. I much prefer primes for general use. I have both the 12-24 and the 21 ltd so I have to pick one to take with me in the backpack, and I just don't enjoy using the zoom. I also expect the simpler construction of primes make them less likely to stop working.

Your points are perfectly valid of course. On the other hand, if I am to buy two big general zooms anyway, then Pentax looses its relevance for me and I would benefit from better support options from Canikon (as in being able to buy a new lens if the old one is toast). I have travelled a lot in India and SE Asia and you can find a dealer or two in Bangkok, Singapore and KL but apart from that Pentax is not present. I realize my use is beyond what 99% here is doing. If Ricoh are serious about that "adventure" tag, they could call me though, because I am living it and have done so for a handfull of years ;-) (travelling around the world on a bicycle) Really, what I suggest is that Ricoh extends the DA* line with two offerings wider than 40mm. I don't see why that would be controversial and I think it is more relevant than making more tiny Limiteds. In particular since I don't see size being a major selling point in the future. Even if those Limiteds look nice on the shelf.

But actually, none of this is something that is causing sleepless nights for me. I - and others I am sure - is watching these threads to see if there are indications that Ricoh will address the wants I have. For two years very little have happened and those two years follows other two years under HOYA management where next to nothing DLSR-related happened. Unlike many here, I have no sentimental reasons for staying with Pentax but I would hate to have to change system because I hate buying/selling stuff and I don't have any desire to spend hours and days examining Nikon and Canon and their relative pros and cons.
The DA Limited design philosophy is compact, lightweight primes optimized for APS-C. They are pancakes or as close as one can get in certain FL's.

WR and wider apertures would almost certainly take away this design philosophy. HIgh ISO sensors obviate some of the need for very large apertures and we are in an era where form factor is a key measure of the camera, lens included. Small is what will keep APS-C viable.

Pentax appears to support 2 design philosophy:

1) The rugged, WR line in bodies and lenses.

2) The compact, optimized primes.

Two strategies is smart for a company trying to hold its user base and each the most customers. Plan and Plan B.

I'm not sure what you're arguing about.
09-16-2013, 11:26 AM   #517
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The limites, in many cases, are also limited by Pentax's desire to have those 49mm filter threads, or thereabouts. That severely limits speed in certain cases.
09-16-2013, 12:54 PM   #518
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
The limites, in many cases, are also limited by Pentax's desire to have those 49mm filter threads, or thereabouts. That severely limits speed in certain cases.
Mmmm ? Zzzzzz

Yeah Sigma 28/1.8 is nice example of what a big filter thread brings...

09-16-2013, 08:49 PM   #519
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yeah Sigma 28/1.8 is nice example of what a big filter thread brings...
In the case of the Sigma 28/1.8 EX it brings excellent IQ, with very close focusing ability and full-frame capability.
This is one of my most used and most loved lenses.

I'm rather sure that if there were a way to get the same results (e.g., regarding vignetting) by using less material or making the lens smaller then Sigma's engineers would have grabbed the chance.

Do you know more about lens design than Sigma's engineers do?
09-16-2013, 09:40 PM   #520
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New HD DA Limited lenses

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Nope. Never been. Nor the camera bodies.
And photographers were taking Leica cameras and lenses through rain, snow and torture, war zones, bringing back amazing and most iconic images in the history of photography.

So what we witness today with all these impossible requests, is nothing but an excuse, to justify one's lack of commitment to stop crying but be imaginative and do the work.
Fair enough, but the Leicas that were in the hands of Capa (& his likes) on the beaches of Normandy, in Spain, in Indochina, etc., and which brought back an awful lot of those iconic images.....well, those Leicas had a whole lot less of electronics and electro motors that blow their brains out over a single drop of water or grain of sand....

Just sayin' ...

[Edited: realized that I'd embarrassingly added a superfluous p to Capa)

Last edited by tclausen; 09-16-2013 at 10:31 PM.
09-16-2013, 09:45 PM   #521
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Fair enough, but the Leicas that were in the hands of Cappa (& his likes) on the beaches of Normandy, in Spain, in Indochina, etc., and which brought back an awful lot of those iconic images.....well, those Leicas had a whole lot less of electronics and electro motors that blow their brains out over a single drop of water or grain of sand....

Just sayin' ...
Yes, but that is not Leica's problem; that is the problem of today's digital camera industry that cannot design a camera that isn't an electronic gizmo and as complicated to use as hell, and that doesn't have, for example, sealed most important parts of it. Unless you are into underwater camera market, there isn't a single camera that is made as such.
09-16-2013, 10:09 PM   #522
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Fair enough, but the Leicas that were in the hands of Cappa (& his likes) on the beaches of Normandy, in Spain, in Indochina, etc., and which brought back an awful lot of those iconic images.....well, those Leicas had a whole lot less of electronics and electro motors that blow their brains out over a single drop of water or grain of sand....

Just sayin' ...
Not to mention, if they were doing this professionally, they either had sponsorship, or a company that was underwriting maintenance and repairs, OR tax writeoffs for business expenses to send the lenses in for cleaning and repairs.
09-16-2013, 10:22 PM   #523
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Yes, but that is not Leica's problem; that is the problem of today's digital camera industry that cannot design a camera that isn't an electronic gizmo and as complicated to use as hell, and that doesn't have, for example, sealed most important parts of it. Unless you are into underwater camera market, there isn't a single camera that is made as such.
Well, in fairness, it is rather hard to build a digital camera that isn't an "electronic gizmo", that kinda comes with the territory ('cept if you have come up with a sensor and storage not requiring power...in which case, can I come to your nobel ceremony )

That said, I am /not/ disagreeing with you on, at least somewhat, and at least with some of what you're saying regarding gizmo's....I use about 1% of the functionalities of my digital cameras: always shoot in RAW, always use spot-metering, (almost) always bracket +/- 2, and always either HyperAv or M, and shot MF film for so long that I've gotten used to "focus and recompose", thus, center-point AF only (although in honesty, the K-01 is making me play with AF points outside the strict center) and in the lowest ISO possible. So, every other button on the camera, for features other than these, are just a potential point of failure that should be eliminated, and every extra function that the camera can do is just something adding transistors to the circuit and consumes precious battery

So, my dream Pentax would be K-01 sized, with a single good AF sensor, a spot meter, two wheels (shutter/aperture), switch between HyperAV/M/off, and a green button. It'd always shoot in ISO 64 or 25 (to emulate you-know-what) and it'd always bracket +/- 2. So few mechanical buttons, so few points that can fail, it'd be robust.....Pentax should really build that, I guess that it'd cost about a bazillion Euros a piece, since they'd sell exactly two.....my primary and my backup body

Cameras today are gizmo's because the photographers today are much much more diverse than we were back when we bought Olympus OM-1's (which you can also drag through the mud, I confirm) or Leica II/III. I think that Leica /is/ trying to resist with some of their M-series, although they, too, are sliding down that slope somewhat.....

But you are - kinda - contradicting yourself also. Today's modern camera industry is perfectly capable of designing nice and sealed cameras, cf. Heie's abuse of his K5.....and other brands, too, can and do build well-sealed cameras. It's just that the electronics and electro-motors in today's cameras are extremely sensitive to water and dust, and therefore today's cameras /require/ environmental sealing where yesterdecade's cameras didn't. A drop of water on the wrong part of a circuit board vs. a drop of water on any part of a mechanical gear.....
09-16-2013, 10:30 PM   #524
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Not to mention, if they were doing this professionally, they either had sponsorship, or a company that was underwriting maintenance and repairs, OR tax writeoffs for business expenses to send the lenses in for cleaning and repairs.
Today, probably yes. In the Spanish war, I honestly do not know what the "corporate structure and context" looked like for war reporters like Capa....interesting topic, though, "war photography through the times"....

I'd think that one thing was a given, when debarking on the front then, there was no assumed air-lift out at the end of each workday, to get your gear CLAed, charge batteries, etc. You'd land with the troops and what gear (camera & film) you/d expect that you'd need until the end of the war or the end of your life (whichever came first), and it'd just have to be good enough until then.

Makes me occasionally wonder...it's not uncommon to see perfectly working camera bodies from the 2nd WW and before...in 70 years time, how will our DSLRs and EVIL cameras fare....?
09-16-2013, 10:36 PM   #525
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
...
Makes me occasionally wonder...it's not uncommon to see perfectly working camera bodies from the 2nd WW and before...in 70 years time, how will our DSLRs and EVIL cameras fare....?
:
You mean something like this?
Super special leica

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