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09-21-2013, 09:22 AM   #526
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That's debatable.
Let them release two really good brand new cameras, update a few problematic lenses (fix the perception problem), and people will finally see the value as opposed to now, when they need to imagine it, and still be unsure.
K3 and K03?

09-21-2013, 11:04 AM   #527
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That's debatable.
Only reason people don't see the value in new lenses is because there are no updated and no new generation cameras that justify the use of such lenses.
There is no value now at the current prices; there will be no value when Ricoh release a new Pentax camera. I can get Canon or Nikon lenses with lower prices, more features, and faster. The only reason to keep using Pentax is if you already have the lenses. I used to recommend Pentax to people I know because of the value a few years ago; I do the math, compare features, look at market share (which implies certain level of support from 3rd party). Recently, a friend of mine wants to get into photography -- I tell him to go either Nikon or Canon; it's a no brainer.
09-21-2013, 11:53 AM   #528
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrbrightside Quote
There is no value now at the current prices; there will be no value when Ricoh release a new Pentax camera. I can get Canon or Nikon lenses with lower prices, more features, and faster. The only reason to keep using Pentax is if you already have the lenses. I used to recommend Pentax to people I know because of the value a few years ago; I do the math, compare features, look at market share (which implies certain level of support from 3rd party). Recently, a friend of mine wants to get into photography -- I tell him to go either Nikon or Canon; it's a no brainer.

I don't see how you can claim this. I find my K-5 to be a little wearisome to carry around sometimes, but I do get image stabilization and weather sealing for my effort. Neither Canon nor Nikon offer as compact packages. And their plastic fantastics, which are priced nicely, don't benefit from stabilization. They're really not on par with the Limited lenses in terms of quality either. They make some fast lenses, but they're big, heavy, and contrary to what you're saying, expensive.
09-21-2013, 11:55 AM   #529
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
I don't see how you can claim this. I find my K-5 to be a little wearisome to carry around sometimes, but I do get image stabilization and weather sealing for my effort. Neither Canon nor Nikon offer as compact packages. And their plastic fantastics, which are priced nicely, don't benefit from stabilization. They're really not on par with the Limited lenses in terms of quality either. They make some fast lenses, but they're big, heavy, and contrary to what you're saying, expensive.
Self-confirmation?

09-21-2013, 12:25 PM   #530
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yeah, digital camera (and its replacing every couple years) manufacturing is clearly an ecological achievement.

Come on...
As opposed to film? The sensor was changed for every shot.
09-21-2013, 12:35 PM   #531
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Self-confirmation?
Nope, just not blind.

QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
I don't see how you can claim this.
Pentax 35mm f/2.8: Pentax SMCP-DA 35mm f/2.8 Macro Limited Series Autofocus 21730
Canon 35mm f/2.0 IS USM: Canon EF 35mm f/2.0 IS USM Standard Prime Lens 5178B002 B&H

Pentax 21mm f/3.2: Pentax Wide Angle SMCP-DA 21mm f/3.2 AL Limited Series 21590 B&H
Canon 28mm f/2.8 IS USM (FF): Canon EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens 5179B002 B&H Photo Video

Yes, I'll give Pentax the size advantage. But if I really care about size, I'll look at Sony -- which most likely my next camera if Sony release a compact full frame.
09-21-2013, 12:53 PM - 2 Likes   #532
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrbrightside Quote
Nope, just not blind.


Pentax 35mm f/2.8: Pentax SMCP-DA 35mm f/2.8 Macro Limited Series Autofocus 21730
Canon 35mm f/2.0 IS USM: Canon EF 35mm f/2.0 IS USM Standard Prime Lens 5178B002 B&H

Pentax 21mm f/3.2: Pentax Wide Angle SMCP-DA 21mm f/3.2 AL Limited Series 21590 B&H
Canon 28mm f/2.8 IS USM (FF): Canon EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM Lens 5179B002 B&H Photo Video

Yes, I'll give Pentax the size advantage. But if I really care about size, I'll look at Sony -- which most likely my next camera if Sony release a compact full frame.





Well, you've completely undercut your point. Neither the math nor the features are on your side. You get a heavier and more expensive kit, albeit with some extra speed -- and in the case of Canon much reduced image quality. Their sensors are flatly crumby compared to its competitors.

I used to have a sigma 30mm 1.4 (which is similar to your examples), and I sold it to get a 43mm Limited, and even at added cost, I have a better lighter kit, and I have no intention of going back to glass like that.

If you don't like Pentax or its offerings, fine. Go with Canon, but that doesn't mean other people don't have other priorities. The choice is not a "no brainer." Pentax still offers a very compact SLR, with the highest image quality, at a competitive price.
09-21-2013, 01:03 PM   #533
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
That's debatable.
Only reason people don't see the value in new lenses is because there are no updated and no new generation cameras that justify the use of such lenses. K5 was good, but an old song, and no one is excited into buying new lenses knowing that the camera tech is very old.
Let them release two really good brand new cameras, update a few problematic lenses (fix the perception problem), and people will finally see the value — as opposed to now, when they need to imagine it, and still be unsure.
Good points.
When you put it that way Ricoh has no option but to release "really good brand new cameras".
Personally I am looking at a set of the green ring limiteds, going on sale in November, to keep with my K5iis and maybe a 7100 just for my sporting work if Ricoh does not deliver on the camera side.
For now we just have wait to see if the supposed benefits of these new lenses is justified.

09-21-2013, 01:17 PM   #534
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrbrightside Quote
Nope, just not blind.
The whole point of Pentax under Ricoh is to be an alternative to CanNikonY, not just another ho hum camera with a smaller market share. If you want a Canon with PENTAX printed on the flash hump you will be disappointed.

Sure - they're building old designs today - the DA40/2.8 Ltd. is what, 10 years old? - but we're about to see the new design philosophy in real products.

You compared. Very soon you'll need to learn how to contrast.
09-22-2013, 04:25 AM - 2 Likes   #535
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrbrightside Quote
Recently, a friend of mine wants to get into photography -- I tell him to go either Nikon or Canon; it's a no brainer.
I think you made him into a storm trooper Boba Fett clone. I always give advice to everyone to go and try different ideas about photography, not most common ones. Living on Nikon and Canon DSLRs is same as eating cabbage soup one day, and soupe aux choux the next day.
Which is, it's one and the same thing.
09-23-2013, 03:40 AM   #536
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrbrightside Quote
There is no value now at the current prices; there will be no value when Ricoh release a new Pentax camera. I can get Canon or Nikon lenses with lower prices, more features, and faster. The only reason to keep using Pentax is if you already have the lenses. I used to recommend Pentax to people I know because of the value a few years ago; I do the math, compare features, look at market share (which implies certain level of support from 3rd party). Recently, a friend of mine wants to get into photography -- I tell him to go either Nikon or Canon; it's a no brainer.
Same here, I stopped recommending Pentax a while ago. I do not want to be responsible for it when they start regretting their choice. Because the chance that they eventually will regret it, is quite high now. I personally cannot see what advantage Pentax has over the other brands.
09-23-2013, 04:53 AM   #537
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Same here, I stopped recommending Pentax a while ago. I do not want to be responsible for it when they start regretting their choice. Because the chance that they eventually will regret it, is quite high now. I personally cannot see what advantage Pentax has over the other brands.
True. Specially after the price increase of their new and old lenses.
09-23-2013, 05:32 AM   #538
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These new hd da lenses have been released for several days, is there any reviews or sample images?
09-23-2013, 08:51 AM   #539
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Same here, I stopped recommending Pentax a while ago. I do not want to be responsible for it when they start regretting their choice. Because the chance that they eventually will regret it, is quite high now. I personally cannot see what advantage Pentax has over the other brands.
Whilst I adore my K-5, I can easily see how I would have been better going with other brands, and as such I find it hard to recommend Pentax to friends, though I did try to convince my brother to get a K-30 over a 60D, but he wanted to shoot video as well and has a mate who sings the praises of the magic lamp hack so it was kind of a non-starter. He did concede that the K-30 is the best value for a stills camera out there now. Especially considering he's unlikely to buy any other lenses that aren't old manual focus rimes or whatever.

And he's peeved that his canon kit lens isn't weather sealed. Other than that he's loving it, and it's a fantastic camera, but it is enormous.

Pentax currently has value for people who want nothing other than the kit lenses and an excellent high-value body, so marketing a high-end body like this is going to be difficult unless they can make something incredible.
09-23-2013, 08:53 AM   #540
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QuoteOriginally posted by wxjman Quote
These new hd da lenses have been released for several days, is there any reviews or sample images?
The other thing is the last FW releases have some sort of suppport for the new lens coatings, so I wonder if that means some rendering will be altered due to that.

I guess the only way to know is to compare on the old FW against new FW or tape the connections.
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