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09-16-2013, 10:39 PM   #526
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
:
You mean something like this?
Super special leica
Sorta-kinda...that's an M4, a relatively modern Leica, all said and done Also, it's in good cosmetic shape (in eBay terminology "Like new, almost mint!") so I have no doubts that that it'll need at most a CLA and be off to take pretty pictures once more.

09-16-2013, 10:42 PM   #527
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Makes me occasionally wonder...it's not uncommon to see perfectly working camera bodies from the 2nd WW and before...in 70 years time, how will our DSLRs and EVIL cameras fare....?
They won't. Those cams from WWI/II and other places are still around now because they had no electronics or electrical devices within. Purely mechanical, in most cases. They were also rebuilt from time to time, during an era where shops could even do it right down the road from your Hell's Kitchen apartment.

The pure nature of digital photography gives it a finite life, not only in technology (and it MUST be stressed that we are only in the beginning of the digital era), but in longevity. I is imaginable that someone with a parts donor junkyard can keep some working for decades, but they will be far and few. However, I expect 5DII/III cams to be out there for decades, partly due to their sales volume and pro use, as well as studio use in the movie industry, where the items are relatively babied between uses, in climate-controlled storage rooms and cases, plus they are the likely ones to have a parts junkyard for them.
09-16-2013, 10:45 PM   #528
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
Sorta-kinda...that's an M4, a relatively modern Leica, all said and done Also, it's in good cosmetic shape (in eBay terminology "Like new, almost mint!") so I have no doubts that that it'll need at most a CLA and be off to take pretty pictures once more.
It's only 46 years young. Will be probably around for another 46 years too.
Leica MP is one purely mechanical camera still produced; would be good to have on of those, just for the sake of future generations.
09-16-2013, 10:49 PM   #529
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
They won't. Those cams from WWI/II and other places are still around now because they had no electronics or electrical devices within. Purely mechanical, in most cases. They were also rebuilt from time to time, during an era where shops could even do it right down the road from your Hell's Kitchen apartment.

The pure nature of digital photography gives it a finite life, not only in technology (and it MUST be stressed that we are only in the beginning of the digital era), but in longevity. I is imaginable that someone with a parts donor junkyard can keep some working for decades, but they will be far and few. However, I expect 5DII/III cams to be out there for decades, partly due to their sales volume and pro use, as well as studio use in the movie industry, where the items are relatively babied between uses, in climate-controlled storage rooms and cases, plus they are the likely ones to have a parts junkyard for them.
Well, the question was rhetorical, but I agree with you.

Btw., "rebuild" of old mechanical cameras isn't actually needed - an occasional CLA is sufficient, I've got (admittedly not WW2-vintage, but 1972-vintage - so, say, only 40 years old...but then again, not Leica either) mechanical workhorse sitting around that's never gotten anything but light-seals replaced, gunk removed, and some graphite lube added.....

My *istD still is going strong, though, so it's a quarter of the way there already, eh?

09-16-2013, 10:52 PM   #530
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It's only 46 years young. Will be probably around for another 46 years too.
Leica MP is one purely mechanical camera still produced; would be good to have on of those, just for the sake of future generations.
I was just about to ask which "fully mechanical" cameras actually were still in production, you beat me to it. So the MP - check, I'll add "buy Leica MP" to my list riiight below "win the lottery"

Is it really the only one left in that category? Other than LF/View cameras, of course? That's really sad...
09-16-2013, 10:58 PM   #531
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QuoteOriginally posted by tclausen Quote
I was just about to ask which "fully mechanical" cameras actually were still in production, you beat me to it. So the MP - check, I'll add "buy Leica MP" to my list riiight below "win the lottery"

Is it really the only one left in that category? Other than LF/View cameras, of course? That's really sad...
Why? The world has resoundingly moved on. Even film is harder to obtain now (along with questions of how environmentally sound film manufacturing and developing is).

There are still millions of film cams out there that hit the selling block for cheap on fleabay, for instance, so we'll all do ok.

Not everything needs to be preserved.
09-16-2013, 11:01 PM   #532
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Why? The world has resoundingly moved on. Even film is harder to obtain now (along with questions of how environmentally sound film manufacturing and developing is).

There are still millions of film cams out there that hit the selling block for cheap on fleabay, for instance, so we'll all do ok.

Not everything needs to be preserved.
Oh, call it nostalgia, call it that I get a sense of enjoyment from holding a piece of precision mechanics.

Call it "emotions"

Otherwise, why don't we just burn all museums....photography is clearly progress over the paint that was used for the Mona Lisa, and sculptures that, at best, approximate reality....c'mon, now we have 3D scanners and printers

Some things need to be preserved just because their very existence produces emotions
09-16-2013, 11:10 PM   #533
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Why? The world has resoundingly moved on. Even film is harder to obtain now (along with questions of how environmentally sound film manufacturing and developing is)..
Considering that film will be used for mostly art photography by the talented few, for all analog traditional picture making (tiring for many) and as an once-in-bluemoon respite from digital (only those serious to learn more), chemicals used in its production and development will pose insignificant threat to the environment.

Especially when compared to overproduction of digital cameras and gizmos that fill up landfills daily.
True real innovation in digital photography will come that day when our primary concern is making a digital cameras usable as longer and possible.

09-17-2013, 10:34 AM   #534
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
In the case of the Sigma 28/1.8 EX it brings excellent IQ, with very close focusing ability and full-frame capability.
This is one of my most used and most loved lenses.

I'm rather sure that if there were a way to get the same results (e.g., regarding vignetting) by using less material or making the lens smaller then Sigma's engineers would have grabbed the chance.

Do you know more about lens design than Sigma's engineers do?
I know the 28/1.8 has its use, I have one. I also know it is a very nice pot of Vaseline. It is nowhere near excellent IQ. Never. No way.
Think what you want, but keep your condescending tone for you.
09-17-2013, 10:40 AM   #535
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Why? The world has resoundingly moved on. Even film is harder to obtain now (along with questions of how environmentally sound film manufacturing and developing is).

There are still millions of film cams out there that hit the selling block for cheap on fleabay, for instance, so we'll all do ok.

Not everything needs to be preserved.
Yeah, digital camera (and its replacing every couple years) manufacturing is clearly an ecological achievement.

Come on...
09-17-2013, 10:59 AM   #536
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yeah, digital camera (and its replacing every couple years) manufacturing is clearly an ecological achievement.

Come on...
Judging from the stats of a slowdown in the industry, perhaps people are doing like with their computers and holding onto them longer? Don't know, but photo development chemicals and the films aren't really good for the health, nor environment.

How many cams have you turned over in the last few years?

How sound is it to blame upgraditis for getting the new-look DA Limiteds?
09-17-2013, 11:11 AM   #537
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Judging from the stats of a slowdown in the industry, perhaps people are doing like with their computers and holding onto them longer? Don't know, but photo development chemicals and the films aren't really good for the health, nor environment.
Did I say film chemicals were good for the health?
Do you have any idea of the waste generated by microprocessors and sensors manufacturing (same of course for everything electronics) ? Seems you don't even want to bother asking the question.
I don't even say film is low waste tech, certainly not but neglect the waste of digital is very short sighted.

QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
How many cams have you turned over in the last few years?
Let's say I'm at my 4th DSLR (not counting the wife's of course) and each of'me was indeed a big tech change, so it's not as if I bought as an impulsive buyers. But earlier ones are all gone. Completely outdated. Film ones still run happily. I'm not sure how many. Around 8 I think not counting the 4x5.

QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
How sound is it to blame upgraditis for getting the new-look DA Limiteds?
I didn't blame anybody about any lens. Blame yourself for not being able to read.
09-17-2013, 11:25 AM   #538
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Did I say film chemicals were good for the health?
Do you have any idea of the waste generated by microprocessors and sensors manufacturing (same of course for everything electronics) ? Seems you don't even want to bother asking the question.
I don't even say film is low waste tech, certainly not but neglect the waste of digital is very short sighted.


Let's say I'm at my 4th DSLR (not counting the wife's of course) and each of'me was indeed a big tech change, so it's not as if I bought as an impulsive buyers. But earlier ones are all gone. Completely outdated. Film ones still run happily. I'm not sure how many. Around 8 I think not counting the 4x5.


I didn't blame anybody about any lens. Blame yourself for not being able to read.
Yes, I do know what electronics wastes are created. In fact, intimately as part of an industry. I was involved in recycling of items, rather than scrapping, for industry, despite the longer leadtimes it might cause.
09-17-2013, 01:19 PM - 1 Like   #539
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09-18-2013, 01:26 PM   #540
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
The Leica M (240) is marketed as splash-proof. Leica Camera AG - Photography - LEICA M
That's quite interesting. Wouldn't doubt it, in fact, as the body design is fairly simple and body seams seem to be sort of a tongue in groove type. For instance, the Nikon D7000 and Olympus E-5 seal in places in this manner, without sealing materials.
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