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09-25-2013, 11:30 PM   #601
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Main strategic asset of the K-mount are its lenses. If there's a mean to uplift the perception of already good lenses, Ricoh will do it. I mean, any sensible company buying Pentax thinking long-term would do it too. The "HD" buzzword is the rebranding exercise in the realm of lenses, which doesn't just describe a new coating, but a whole set of improvements that:

• justify higher price, which was necessary to achieve reasonable levels of profit
• perception of great quality

HD coating story also tries to fill the void caused by lack of any other news, and as such it is understandable many users think of it as "well, so what?". Like the old coating was bad? No, it wasn't, but the new buzzword was needed, to put the Pentax again in the headlines.

I cannot recall any other lens manufacturer raising this same level of "fuss" about the new coating — which would be a normal, silently performed procedure in the continuous improvement cycle. However, not many of them needed urgent rebranding and a new level of self-awareness like Pentax brand does need right now.
MMM lenses optimized for digital, anyone? Sigma redoing all its range with DC/DG version ?
Same stuff IMO.

09-25-2013, 11:44 PM   #602
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
though I really wonder where on earth did Pentax get the name "*ist"....
If I recall correctly, the "ist" suffix signified a practitioner of some sort - like "scientist "or "dentist". Therefore, the *ist meant that (in Pentax's view) you could be anything you like. So it really was a wild card symbol. Naff, I know, but that's advertising for you!

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I cannot recall any other lens manufacturer raising this same level of "fuss" about the new coating
Nikon was fairly bullish about their Nano coating.
09-26-2013, 05:04 AM   #603
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
I can only think of Zeiss's T* coatings as having significantly more cachet.
Didn't Zeiss licence their coating from Pentax? Or am I way off the mark?
09-26-2013, 06:32 AM   #604
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Indeed, Pentax = Pentaprism Contax. The name belong to Zeiss Ikon Dresden, merged into Pentacon VEB in GDR.

09-26-2013, 04:21 PM   #605
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
Not quite all of them - the AF motor works!
LTD lenses don't have af motors.
09-26-2013, 04:36 PM   #606
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Indeed, Pentax = Pentaprism Contax. The name belong to Zeiss Ikon Dresden, merged into Pentacon VEB in GDR.
That's what it was intended for under Contax use; for Asahi it was Pentaprism Reflex or Pentaprism Asahiflex (take your pick). Contax decided not to use it and Asahi bought the name from Contax a few years later, although they managed to miss the South African rights and had to use "Pentar" until they could buy those too.

There was definitely co-operation between Zeiss and Asahi over SMC coatings but I'm not sure whether Zeiss helped with the coatings themselves or just the way they were applied. SMC was a very big selling point for a long time.
09-26-2013, 05:55 PM   #607
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
I know they had some working agreements at some point (I believe the Pentax name itself started with Zeiss), but the T coatings (without the *) go back to the 1930's, and I've heard the T* designation was actually a response to Pentax's success in marketing their own coatings under the SMC designation and that the Zeiss T* coatings were used, albeit not labeled as such, for some time before the designation was created.
Pentax, actually Asahi Optical had state of the art coatings prior to SMC as well.
09-26-2013, 06:38 PM - 1 Like   #608
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Pentax, actually Asahi Optical had state of the art coatings prior to SMC as well.
Asahi didn't invent it. They actually bought the rights to Super Multi Coating from a California company, Optical Coatings Labs. They had been licensing the use and as their lens production grew it just made more sense to own the patent. What mattered was the industrial application process Pentax invented, just as Ricoh is really marketing the new production process, not the coating itself.
"As I already wrote, Asahi didn’t invent the multicoating, since they bought patents from Optical Coatings Laboratories Inc. (OCLI), based in California. The merit of Asahi Opt. Co. was to understand the importance of anti-reflective coating, looking for the proper technology, developing their own industrial process and put it into production at acceptable costs. That marked a turning point in the evolution of photographic optics, allowing the development of modern ultrawide-angle and wide-range zoom lenses. With the growing popularity of zoom lenses and their ever-increasing focal length extension (needing more and more elements), multicoating became almost as necessary as glass in order to obtain quality optics.

It is believed that nearly all major lens makers (including Canon, Nikon and Zeiss) paid royalties to Asahi to make use of some part of the industrial process for laying thin anti-reflective compounds on glass elements at acceptable costs. Leica obviously distinguished itself by stating that multicoating was of little help and reducing the number of elements was better for flare control. Of course, when Asahi patents on multicoating expired many years later, they suddenly changed their minds and started using multicoating like all other manufacturers."


The original article was published on SPOTMATIC magazine #22, October 1999.

Flare control in multi-coated lenses of the Seventies

By Dario Bonazza



09-26-2013, 06:48 PM   #609
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
If I recall correctly, the "ist" suffix signified a practitioner of some sort - like "scientist "or "dentist". Therefore, the *ist meant that (in Pentax's view) you could be anything you like. So it really was a wild card symbol. Naff, I know, but that's advertising for you!
Now that, if true, is some honestly eccentric way of obtaining a name for a product. But yeah, dunno if it worked, but cool if it did!

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
HD coating story also tries to fill the void caused by lack of any other news, and as such it is understandable many users think of it as "well, so what?". Like the old coating was bad? No, it wasn't, but the new buzzword was needed, to put the Pentax again in the headlines.
Given the importance of marketing these days than the actual technological development happening behind the scenes, this is something more understandable. Good point.
09-26-2013, 11:24 PM   #610
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
LTD lenses don't have af motors.
We were discussing the 560mm, which has a DC motor, i believe.
09-27-2013, 06:54 AM   #611
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Asahi didn't invent it. They actually bought the rights to Super Multi Coating from a California company, Optical Coatings Labs. They had been licensing the use and as their lens production grew it just made more sense to own the patent. What mattered was the industrial application process Pentax invented, just as Ricoh is really marketing the new production process, not the coating itself.
"As I already wrote, Asahi didn’t invent the multicoating, since they bought patents from Optical Coatings Laboratories Inc. (OCLI), based in California. The merit of Asahi Opt. Co. was to understand the importance of anti-reflective coating, looking for the proper technology, developing their own industrial process and put it into production at acceptable costs. That marked a turning point in the evolution of photographic optics, allowing the development of modern ultrawide-angle and wide-range zoom lenses. With the growing popularity of zoom lenses and their ever-increasing focal length extension (needing more and more elements), multicoating became almost as necessary as glass in order to obtain quality optics.

It is believed that nearly all major lens makers (including Canon, Nikon and Zeiss) paid royalties to Asahi to make use of some part of the industrial process for laying thin anti-reflective compounds on glass elements at acceptable costs. Leica obviously distinguished itself by stating that multicoating was of little help and reducing the number of elements was better for flare control. Of course, when Asahi patents on multicoating expired many years later, they suddenly changed their minds and started using multicoating like all other manufacturers."


The original article was published on SPOTMATIC magazine #22, October 1999.

Flare control in multi-coated lenses of the Seventies

By Dario Bonazza

Where did I say they invented it? Plus, you missed the part where I said they had state of the art coatings, BEFORE they rolled out SMC.In other words, it wasn't Asahi Optical's first foray into coatings.
09-27-2013, 06:56 AM   #612
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
We were discussing the 560mm, which has a DC motor, i believe.
The discussion also involved the DFA 100 WR macro which was stated to be LTD like.

QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
I wonder if there's a reason why? That lens seem to fit all the definitions of a DA*, just like the DFA 100 fits almost all the descriptions of a limited.
09-29-2013, 11:27 AM   #613
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The million dollar question is: When will we seen the FA LTDs updated? It would be nice to see update these with better coatings.
09-29-2013, 12:32 PM   #614
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Just a thought...couldn`t the HDcoating be an improvement especially for the AA-filterless sensors? IIRC the DA560 was the first with that coating and released allmost together with the K5 IIs, wasn`t it?
09-29-2013, 01:41 PM   #615
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QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
Just a thought...couldn`t the HDcoating be an improvement especially for the AA-filterless sensors?
Yep, I think so too! I think this update to coatings was done out of necessity, because the next camera will need this extra resolution. Of course, we will have to wait for some tests to know for sure, but thats what I think. I dont see a reason why Pentax would go announcing a coating name change if it wasnt a significant improvement.
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