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09-29-2013, 02:51 PM   #616
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
(...)
I don't see a reason why Pentax would go announcing a coating name change if it wasnt a significant improvement.
"Marketing", may be ?

09-29-2013, 03:13 PM   #617
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The biggest improvement between SMC and HD coating is probably within the manufacturing process when coating lens elements, and maybe not as much in improvement on the lens.
09-29-2013, 03:17 PM   #618
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Actually I think a treatment almost as good as the nano-coatings (but not as expensive, so they can use it on larger scale) is more than just marketing.
09-29-2013, 03:23 PM   #619
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I don't think that HD is nano-coating or may be compared to nano-coating !
It's just an improved version of the SMC coating, but remains way behind the nano-coatings of Canon/Nikon

09-29-2013, 04:15 PM   #620
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QuoteOriginally posted by MouLaG ‘fr Quote
It's just an improved version of the SMC coating, but remains way behind the nano-coatings of Canon/Nikon
Do you have some information or testing that you can show to support this?
09-29-2013, 04:47 PM   #621
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QuoteOriginally posted by MouLaG ‘fr Quote
I don't think that HD is nano-coating or may be compared to nano-coating !
It's just an improved version of the SMC coating, but remains way behind the nano-coatings of Canon/Nikon
Stop making up things.
HD was compared to ABC (a "standard" nano-coating) by Pentax themselves: "This coating assures optical performance almost equal to Aero Bright Coating, another PENTAX-exclusive lens coating process made possible by advanced nanotechnology and applied to higher-class lenses."
And it appears to be a nano-coating itself, without the complex production method:
"The HD Coating* effectively solves this problem by employing a PENTAX-exclusive manufacturing process, while optimizing the density of its coating layer and controlling the thickness with the accuracy of one nanometer (one millionth of a millimeter). As the result, the original design parameters for the lens coating are accurately applied to the coating layer to optimize anti-reflection performance of a lens. "
09-30-2013, 03:54 AM   #622
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Oh, i think I'm wrong with this sentence:
QuoteQuote:
but remains way behind the nano-coatings of Canon/Nikon
The statements from PENTAX are that it is close to the Pentax's Aero-bright Coating (but I don't know how this Aero-bright coating "scores" compared to the Nikon's Nano Coating). And if PENTAX shows us a comparison between standard SMC and HD coatings, they give us no comparison with Aero-bright coating.



For the rest of my statement:
QuoteQuote:
I don't think that HD is nano-coating or may be compared to nano-coating !
It's just an improved version of the SMC coating,
I think my point of view is correct ...

See this :
QuoteQuote:
DE: You've got another coating, the "Aero Bright" coating, and it seems like both of those were used together in the 90mm. How do they differ? Are they serving different functions?

JC: The Aero Bright coating is for internal surfaces of the lens. It reduces internal reflections, and changes the refraction of the light through the lens. But it's not as durable as the HD coating, whereas the HD coating is appropriate for external lens surfaces. It's more durable, and it accomplishes the same goals. If you put them together, you end up with a great lens.

DE: Got it. I'm not sure what technology you're using, but I know that the nano coatings tend to be soft coatings, so they're very easily damaged.


JC: Yes.

from: Q&A with Pentaxís John Carlson: A deeper look inside the new MX-1, Pentaxís ILCs and lenses

Also this:
QuoteQuote:
PENTAX - PENTAX Announces New 90mm Macro Lens
HD PENTAX D FA 645 MACRO 90mm F2.8 ED AW SR lens
This lens is treated with HD Coating*, a newly developed, high grade multi-layer lens coating , which offers higher light transmittance with reduced reflection, to deliver sharp, clear images free of flare and ghosting, even under demanding lighting conditions such as backlight. By coupling this coating with the PENTAX-exclusive, high grade Aero Bright Coating,** this lens optimizes light transmittance while minimizing refraction.

* HD stands for High Definition, and signifies the lensís capacity to reproduce images that excel in transparency, definition, resolution and rendition.
** A PENTAX-original lens coating process developed through the use of advanced nanotechnology. Using a silica aerogel with a uniform porous structure as the base material, this coating produces clear, high-quality images by assuring an outstanding anti-reflection performance over a broad wavelength range.
For the Aero-bright coating, PENTAX speaks of Nanotechnology, NOT for the HD coating.


In your description, Kunzite, PENTAX does not speak of nanotechnology, but of the thickness and accuracy of the layer (and the process to achieve this). ;-)
09-30-2013, 04:48 AM   #623
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Quit making stuff up and asking us to believe that the absence of a positive declaration proves a negative. Show us your science - otherwise what you "think" isn't meaningful.

09-30-2013, 05:36 AM   #624
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The million dollar question is: When will we seen the FA LTDs updated? It would be nice to see update these with better coatings.

I would like to see the FA Ltd series with Aero Bright and SP Coatings.
09-30-2013, 05:41 AM   #625
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Quit making stuff up and asking us to believe that the absence of a positive declaration proves a negative. Show us your science - otherwise what you "think" isn't meaningful.
He does have a point, I'm afraid. Asking him to prove a negative won't make it go away. Where/when did Ricoh tell us nano technology was used with the HD coating?

Besides that, who cares? The SMC coating is excellent. If HD coating is only a tiny improval then they have improved on excellence. Nano-tech or not.
09-30-2013, 05:51 AM   #626
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QuoteOriginally posted by MouLaG ‘fr Quote
Oh, i think I'm wrong with this sentence:


The statements from PENTAX are that it is close to the Pentax's Aero-bright Coating (but I don't know how this Aero-bright coating "scores" compared to the Nikon's Nano Coating). And if PENTAX shows us a comparison between standard SMC and HD coatings, they give us no comparison with Aero-bright coating.



For the rest of my statement:


I think my point of view is correct ...

See this :



Also this:


For the Aero-bright coating, PENTAX speaks of Nanotechnology, NOT for the HD coating.


In your description, Kunzite, PENTAX does not speak of nanotechnology, but of the thickness and accuracy of the layer (and the process to achieve this). ;-)
It depends on whether this is the Patent for Aero Bright or HD. Given the date, I tend to believe it is for HD.

QuoteQuote:
Quote: Abstract An anti-reflection coating comprising a mesoporous silica coating composed of mesoporous silica nano-particles formed on a substrate or a dense coating formed on the substrate, the mesoporous silica coating having a refractive index of more than 1.10 and 1.35 or less.

Imai; Hiroaki (Kanagawa, JP), Nakayama; Hiroyuki (Tokyo, JP), Shiokawa; Takanobu (Kanagawa, JP), Yamada; Kazuhiro (Saitama, JP), Suzuki; Mineta (Saitama, JP) Assignee: Keio University (Tokyo, JP)
Pentax Ricoh Imaging Company, Ltd. (Tokyo, JP)
Appl. No.: 12/393,333 Filed: February 26, 2009
09-30-2013, 05:51 AM   #627
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The SMC coating is excellent.
For the record, SMC is not one coating. It has been changed over the years.
09-30-2013, 05:56 AM   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
He does have a point, I'm afraid. Asking him to prove a negative won't make it go away. Where/when did Ricoh tell us nano technology was used with the HD coating?

Besides that, who cares? The SMC coating is excellent. If HD coating is only a tiny improval then they have improved on excellence. Nano-tech or not.

According to Ricoh/Pentax:



As I pointed out in my previous post, that 2009 patent may be for HD.
09-30-2013, 06:48 AM   #629
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MouLaG ‘fr:
- there's nothing to indicate that ABC would be inferior to other nanocoatings
- just because ABC is not suitable for external surfaces doesn't mean it's used in the internal surfaces of the HD lenses, without being mentioned. Pentax is very clear about the D FA645 90mm macro using HD and ABC.
- the soft nano-coatings are the "classic" silica nano-particle ones. I believe HD is using a different production process, as AFAIK Pentax had patents on that.

P.S. Why am I not surprised Clavius doesn't think it's necessary to prove a negative claim?

Last edited by Kunzite; 09-30-2013 at 07:04 AM.
09-30-2013, 06:52 AM   #630
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
According to Ricoh/Pentax:



As I pointed out in my previous post, that 2009 patent may be for HD.
So it is just an assumption that HD coating uses nano technology then?
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