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09-30-2013, 06:58 AM   #631
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What is nano technology anyway...There are so many applications and definitions.

A term that means nothing since marketing has appropriated it.

09-30-2013, 07:25 AM   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
What is nano technology anyway...There are so many applications and definitions.

A term that means nothing since marketing has appropriated it.
It's a marketing term only.
09-30-2013, 07:38 AM - 2 Likes   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's a marketing term only.
It's a term from Ork:



http://valerierlawson.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/mork-nano.jpg
09-30-2013, 08:42 AM   #634
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
It's a term from Ork:
Shazbot!

09-30-2013, 09:12 AM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
So it is just an assumption that HD coating uses nano technology then?
No, I didn't make any assumption. It depends o whether the above patent is for HD or not. Given it was filed Feb 2009, I think it is possibly for HD since Aerobright was already in use on the DA* 55/1.4 etc.
09-30-2013, 09:24 AM   #636
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HD, nano, SMC, Aerobright, are all just incremental improvements in polymer coatings similar to what contact lenses have. Their impact on durability is known, on t-stop and IQ...almost no data. Judging from the Pentax graph above the difference is minute.
09-30-2013, 09:35 AM   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
HD, nano, SMC, Aerobright, are all just incremental improvements in polymer coatings similar to what contact lenses have. Their impact on durability is known, on t-stop and IQ...almost no data. Judging from the Pentax graph above the difference is minute.

Regarding the graph, it depends on whether the 1 on the left column is 1% or 100%. If it is 1%, you are correct. As far as nano tech goes, some organizations consider it the manipulation of matter with at least one dimension sized from 1 to 100 nanometers in size. From a practical standpoint, you are correct about the incremental improvement. However, the Aero Bright and HD may be different chemistries etc. than the SMC.
09-30-2013, 05:42 PM   #638
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Regarding the graph, it depends on whether the 1 on the left column is 1% or 100%. If it is 1%, you are correct.
Surely the "1" represents "1%".

But even then I wouldn't say the improvement is "minute".
If several lens elements are combined than the overall effect of the improvement will be significant and not only mean a better t-stop, but also better colour fidelity.

09-30-2013, 07:19 PM   #639
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The way I read it is that Nano coatings are a crystalline structure and hence fragile whereas SMC/HD is a bonded polymer.
I'm assuming like other traditional coatings is that SMC is applied by vapour deposition, ie you vaporised the coating and it condenses onto the surface of the elements forming layers. HD seems to be based on a refinement to the process where they have figured out how to create a more even coating.

I will speculate that nano tech coatings could be completely different, being a directly applied to the elements (tech like 3d printing for their application) I have no idea how bonding is achieved.

Edit,
Just looked up Anti-reflective coating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SMC/HD are surface films of either metal oxides or fluropolymers.
Nanotech is little artificially made porous balls of silica.
The serve the same purpose but are very different.

Last edited by robjmitchell; 09-30-2013 at 07:52 PM.
09-30-2013, 08:24 PM   #640
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Ok this graph is making me really excited!

Normal glass reflects about 4% of normal incident light,
multi coated glass reduces that that to about 0.4% (if the graph is based on SMC then pentax was doing very well at 0.3%)
HD has got this down to 0.1% or less.
Think of it as SMC being 33% better than the competition and HD being 300% better than SMC and all of a sudden it sounds fantastic, especially when you multiply the effects over multiple elements.
Not only does it affect lens flare but critically it has a major effect on contrast as well, which hasn't really been mentioned but is one of the most critical performance criteria of a good lens IMO.

The only advantage of Aerobright and other nano coatings is that it may be able to deal with low angle incident light better, or you could just put your lens hood on!
09-30-2013, 08:48 PM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
...if the graph is based on SMC...
I think this is a very big if, IMHO. Since this graph was released as part of the marketing for HD, its purpose is to make HD look good. And if they were comparing smc to HD, why not say so? Would Pentax describe smc as "conventional"? I don't know, maybe I'm being paranoid, and I'm sure HD has its merits, but I take this graph with a grain of salt.
09-30-2013, 11:59 PM   #642
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
Edit,
Just looked up Anti-reflective coating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SMC/HD are surface films of either metal oxides or fluropolymers.
Nanotech is little artificially made porous balls of silica.
The serve the same purpose but are very different.
HD could be based on silica aerogels as well; Pentax has a patent on such a coating which is said to offer excellent resistance to scratching/peeling:
https://www.google.com/patents/US8231966

QuoteOriginally posted by filoxophy Quote
I think this is a very big if, IMHO. Since this graph was released as part of the marketing for HD, its purpose is to make HD look good. And if they were comparing smc to HD, why not say so? Would Pentax describe smc as "conventional"? I don't know, maybe I'm being paranoid, and I'm sure HD has its merits, but I take this graph with a grain of salt.
Well, smc is a conventional coating (down to the production method), and perhaps it's better to use a generic term for the "bad" example?
Some people would gladly read that as "HD is so-so because it cannot surpass blah blah, which means smc is much worse"

Last edited by Kunzite; 10-01-2013 at 12:06 AM.
10-01-2013, 01:28 AM   #643
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Interesting patent, Could either be HD or super aero?
It is basically is a way to economically fuse the nano particles into a hard ceramic top layer. It still works best with a traditional multilayer underneath and the curves look just like HD.
Proof will be in the pudding of course!
10-01-2013, 02:19 AM   #644
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I don't believe that the 'conventional multi-coating' in the graph represents SMC. Transmission graphs I've seen for SMC have never shown such a large dip in the mid-wavelengths. It's normal marketing to make the new product look as good as possible. Even if we are looking at a 100-200% improvement for HD over SMC, that still does not amount to too much in the real word, since we are dealing in tenths of a percent (the more elements, of course, the more the improvement will manifest itself). It will certainly be far less of an improvement than going from the Super-Takumar lens coatings to the SMC ones, and even there the difference is not that considerable (until shooting into the sun). Frankly, I'm more interested in how much the new coatings might improve flare resistance.
10-01-2013, 03:42 AM   #645
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New HD DA Limited lenses

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I would like to see the FA Ltd series with Aero Bright and SP Coatings.
Not really wanting to go out and buy another copy of the FA Limited, I would much rather see new lens designs in the FA Ltd series....say, a 133/1.8, and with these new coatings.

Last edited by tclausen; 10-01-2013 at 03:54 AM.
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