New HD DA Limited lenses

Jonathan Mac · 09-02-2013, 02:09 PM

Either they plan some heavy discounting or they are going to lose a lot of sales & customers.

mecrox · 09-02-2013, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Wired

Now are those prices special deals too? Because the original 35mm goes for $599 locally

The prices at this dealer do fluctuate but for all except the DA 40mm which is always a bit cheaper, 350-499 would be in the ballpark for a Limited over the past 2-3 years except for the DA 15mm which has always cost a lot more. Over the past year, however, I think prices have drifted down somewhat. OTOH, for some perspective, in 2007 I paid 209 brand-new for my DA 21mm.

FWIW, 599 dollars is around 385 gbp, not a lot more than the 369 on offer currently here.

**Aristophanes** · 09-02-2013, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by mecrox

in 2007 I paid 209 brand-new for my DA 21mm.

People forget that the Yen went through the roof starting in 2007 at the dawn of the global financial crisis. And there was substantial over-inventory. Fire sales in 2007-2009, and since production has been curtailed and the Yen has been aggressively driven down.

mrbrightside · 09-02-2013, 09:38 PM

I don't think there are fire sales of merchandises until late 2008 and early 2009.

Originally posted by Jonathan Mac

Either they plan some heavy discounting or they are going to lose a lot of sales & customers.

The only thing I can think of is that after the price increases in the US, Ricoh got an increase in profit and revenue, so they're normalizing the prices relative to the US prices :/

I don't know why the 15mm is the same price as 21mm, which seems to cost less to make.

**Pål Jensen** · 09-03-2013, 02:33 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by dankoBanana

I have to say that I agree with a comment made on the photorumors link that its a bit ridiculous to replace the name SMC with HD. SMC is know for 40+ years while HD is just another abbreviation that has no connection with Pentax. They should have named it SMC HD.

Super Multi Coating rings a bit silly with 2013 ears as oposed to 1971 when it may have sounded contemporary. The same is true for the "*" designation; hopefully to dissapear as well.

**Pål Jensen** · 09-03-2013, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

What I gather from this HD is that Pentax is planning on announcing a camera with a high pixel density (higher than current cameras), which needs the best resolution. And HD coatings are part of that. But these are still APS-C lenses.
I am glad they are improving their products, shows the company is not stagnating

Spot on. And also signalized that the high-end APS is part of Pentax plan and marked approach (as oposed to bottom end FF promoted by some). The coming camera is probably close to a "Limited" style camera possibly offered in both black and chrome like the Limiteds. Add the Limited zoom to the line-up and Pentax have an unique, compact high-quality system.

Kunzite · 09-03-2013, 03:00 PM

I wouldn't go as far as to talk about a new camera's styling, but the message is clear: "we'll keep those DA Limiteds for a while, so why not update them with our second-best coating?".

lytrytyr · 09-03-2013, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

"why not update them with our second-best coating?"

Well, HD is supposedly more durable than the "best" coating.

I expect my lenses to stay consistent over many years of use,
so I'd prefer HD over Aero Bright.

Uluru · 09-03-2013, 07:17 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by lytrytyr

Well, HD is supposedly more durable than the "best" coating.

I expect my lenses to stay consistent over many years of use,
so I'd prefer HD over Aero Bright.

Apparently, ABC coating has bad wear characteristics, and can't be used for most important elements. Thus it is used for inside elements.
With good coating you can do this, for example:

You Tube

I'd expect this is what HD is supposed to be too. Anyone willing to try?

sbc · 09-03-2013, 08:17 PM

HD is a improved replacement for SMC. SP coating is applied to the front element to keep the front surface free of dust and stains. They co-exist.

Aero Bright coating is not as durable as HD coating, so they are only used in the interior of the lenses. So far only the DA*55, DA*60-250 and DFA645 lenses have it.

Kunzite · 09-03-2013, 11:35 PM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

Well, HD is supposedly more durable than the "best" coating.

I expect my lenses to stay consistent over many years of use,
so I'd prefer HD over Aero Bright.

I didn't mean it as to "blame" them for not using ABC. Using the second-best coating (described as "almost as good" as the more expensive ABC) makes sense, and with such lenses I doubt anyone could see the difference.
And yes, it appears to be visibly better than smc (if that multicoating they had in display was indeed smc, the difference is substantial).

Mistral75 · 09-04-2013, 03:09 AM

I am surprised that nobody (as far as I have read) mentioned the fact that "HD" is the way Hoya (Kenko Tokina in fact) are referring to their top-of-the-line filters (CIR-PL, Protector and UV filters):

HOYA | The Difference is Clear

Kunzite · 09-04-2013, 04:03 AM

Coincidence?
It has a different meaning, the coating is newer and developed by Pentax.

Uluru · 09-04-2013, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Coincidence?
It has a different meaning, the coating is newer and developed by Pentax.

And Armani Eau Pour Homme is a fragrance developed by Giorgio Armani?

Not very likely. Giorgio Armani's designers have an exclusive agreement with one of world's largest manufacturers of perfumes from Europe; they choose samples, buy the fragrance wholesale, repack in Armani's bottles or perhaps, slightly alter fragrance formulas.

This HD coating was most probably developed by Hoya for its own optics division, and was passed down to Pentax Cameras and Optics to use it, or modify the formula for certain applications. As such, it was bought into Ricoh, and now officially started to be utilised.

Mistral75 · 09-04-2013, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

(...)

This HD coating was most probably developed by Hoya for its own optics division, and was passed down to Pentax Cameras and Optics to use it, or modify the formula for certain applications. As such, it was bought into Ricoh, and now officially started to be utilised.

Or the other way around: developed by Pentax as a Hoya division but first used by Hoya for their own purposes and then transferred to Ricoh as a component of the Pentax Cameras and Optics business.

09-04-2013, 03:09 AM	#432
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527 Original Poster	I am surprised that nobody (as far as I have read) mentioned the fact that "HD" is the way Hoya (Kenko Tokina in fact) are referring to their top-of-the-line filters (CIR-PL, Protector and UV filters): HOYA \| The Difference is Clear Last edited by Mistral75; 09-04-2013 at 04:33 AM.

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09-02-2013, 02:09 PM	#421
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,897	Either they plan some heavy discounting or they are going to lose a lot of sales & customers.

09-02-2013, 02:28 PM	#422
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by Wired Now are those prices special deals too? Because the original 35mm goes for $599 locally The prices at this dealer do fluctuate but for all except the DA 40mm which is always a bit cheaper, 350-499 would be in the ballpark for a Limited over the past 2-3 years except for the DA 15mm which has always cost a lot more. Over the past year, however, I think prices have drifted down somewhat. OTOH, for some perspective, in 2007 I paid 209 brand-new for my DA 21mm. FWIW, 599 dollars is around 385 gbp, not a lot more than the 369 on offer currently here.

09-02-2013, 06:09 PM	#423
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by mecrox in 2007 I paid 209 brand-new for my DA 21mm. People forget that the Yen went through the roof starting in 2007 at the dawn of the global financial crisis. And there was substantial over-inventory. Fire sales in 2007-2009, and since production has been curtailed and the Yen has been aggressively driven down.

09-02-2013, 09:38 PM	#424
mrbrightside Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 46	I don't think there are fire sales of merchandises until late 2008 and early 2009. Originally posted by Jonathan Mac Either they plan some heavy discounting or they are going to lose a lot of sales & customers. The only thing I can think of is that after the price increases in the US, Ricoh got an increase in profit and revenue, so they're normalizing the prices relative to the US prices :/ I don't know why the 15mm is the same price as 21mm, which seems to cost less to make.

09-03-2013, 02:33 PM - 1 Like	#425
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by dankoBanana I have to say that I agree with a comment made on the photorumors link that its a bit ridiculous to replace the name SMC with HD. SMC is know for 40+ years while HD is just another abbreviation that has no connection with Pentax. They should have named it SMC HD. Super Multi Coating rings a bit silly with 2013 ears as oposed to 1971 when it may have sounded contemporary. The same is true for the "*" designation; hopefully to dissapear as well.

09-03-2013, 02:39 PM	#426
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Na Horuk What I gather from this HD is that Pentax is planning on announcing a camera with a high pixel density (higher than current cameras), which needs the best resolution. And HD coatings are part of that. But these are still APS-C lenses. I am glad they are improving their products, shows the company is not stagnating Spot on. And also signalized that the high-end APS is part of Pentax plan and marked approach (as oposed to bottom end FF promoted by some). The coming camera is probably close to a "Limited" style camera possibly offered in both black and chrome like the Limiteds. Add the Limited zoom to the line-up and Pentax have an unique, compact high-quality system.

09-03-2013, 03:00 PM	#427
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	I wouldn't go as far as to talk about a new camera's styling, but the message is clear: "we'll keep those DA Limiteds for a while, so why not update them with our second-best coating?".

09-03-2013, 07:13 PM	#428
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by Kunzite "why not update them with our second-best coating?" Well, HD is supposedly more durable than the "best" coating. I expect my lenses to stay consistent over many years of use, so I'd prefer HD over Aero Bright.

09-03-2013, 08:17 PM	#430
sbc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Photos: Albums Posts: 357	HD is a improved replacement for SMC. SP coating is applied to the front element to keep the front surface free of dust and stains. They co-exist. Aero Bright coating is not as durable as HD coating, so they are only used in the interior of the lenses. So far only the DA55, DA60-250 and DFA645 lenses have it.

09-03-2013, 11:35 PM	#431
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by lytrytyr Well, HD is supposedly more durable than the "best" coating. I expect my lenses to stay consistent over many years of use, so I'd prefer HD over Aero Bright. I didn't mean it as to "blame" them for not using ABC. Using the second-best coating (described as "almost as good" as the more expensive ABC) makes sense, and with such lenses I doubt anyone could see the difference. And yes, it appears to be visibly better than smc (if that multicoating they had in display was indeed smc, the difference is substantial).

09-04-2013, 04:03 AM	#433
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Coincidence? It has a different meaning, the coating is newer and developed by Pentax.

09-04-2013, 04:21 AM	#434
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Kunzite Coincidence? It has a different meaning, the coating is newer and developed by Pentax. And Armani Eau Pour Homme is a fragrance developed by Giorgio Armani? Not very likely. Giorgio Armani's designers have an exclusive agreement with one of world's largest manufacturers of perfumes from Europe; they choose samples, buy the fragrance wholesale, repack in Armani's bottles or perhaps, slightly alter fragrance formulas. This HD coating was most probably developed by Hoya for its own optics division, and was passed down to Pentax Cameras and Optics to use it, or modify the formula for certain applications. As such, it was bought into Ricoh, and now officially started to be utilised.

09-04-2013, 04:37 AM	#435
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527 Original Poster	Originally posted by Uluru (...) This HD coating was most probably developed by Hoya for its own optics division, and was passed down to Pentax Cameras and Optics to use it, or modify the formula for certain applications. As such, it was bought into Ricoh, and now officially started to be utilised. Or the other way around: developed by Pentax as a Hoya division but first used by Hoya for their own purposes and then transferred to Ricoh as a component of the Pentax Cameras and Optics business.