New HD DA Limited lenses

Cynog Ap Brychan · 09-24-2013, 03:48 AM

Personally, I'm not bothered by the lack of a WR 35 mm or any wider lens. To my mind, a weather resistant zoom makes much more sense than a prime as it can obviate the need to change lenses in inclement weather. I would exclude telephotos from this as activities such as birding often take place in less than ideal conditions. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a WR 35mm, I'm merely suggesting that it might not be as large as some people seem to think. If you really want weather resistance, Pentax has it covered from 16mm to 300mm in its DA* range.

snake · 09-24-2013, 03:59 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Personally, I'm not bothered by the lack of a WR 35 mm or any wider lens. To my mind, a weather resistant zoom makes much more sense than a prime as it can obviate the need to change lenses in inclement weather. I would exclude telephotos from this as activities such as birding often take place in less than ideal conditions. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a WR 35mm, I'm merely suggesting that it might not be as large as some people seem to think. If you really want weather resistance, Pentax has it covered from 16mm to 300mm in its DA* range.

The thinking here is somewhat as if there is a vacuum.

Some don't want zooms. This is established already, and Pentax, once again, prides itself on being a company built on its line of primes. Those are the ones people will get.

If prime demand wasn't huge, then Fuji would not have had $150,000,000 in revenue in the year after the introduction of the x100.

People demand primes for the best quality and fewest compromises possible. Every shoot I go to, people are using primes, whether it be astro shoots, runways in NYC, concerts, etc.

Not to mention, the DA/SDM lenses have a very poor reputaiton, plus their pricing is scaring people away from Pentax altogether. To not seal their primes, which are overpriced to begin with, also suggests shortcutting and compromise. To seal a 55 that is designed for APSc (so it has an 83mm FL) looks confused, at best. To have a 35 that is slow and expensive and to not even have a 24 (no, the slow 21 is not a replacement), all send out very bad signals of the people who were at the helm inside Pentax.

repaap · 09-24-2013, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by snake

Those are not "normal" focal lengths by any stretch. At best, as mentioned, the 55 is a slight telephoto. Pentax is missing two of the major "classic" focal lengths: the 35 and 50.

I would not mind havind DA*24/2... To companie my DA55

Fogel70 · 09-24-2013, 04:25 AM

I think Pentax has too many lens series in production, and it makes it difficult for them to make the lens series complete.
If they cut down lens series to at least half of them, they probably end up with a better lens line up for the future. But if they continue do the same on FF lenses as they done on APS-C lenses they could end up with 15+ different lens series.

DA L (3 zooms)
DA L WR (2 zooms)
DA (3 primes, 5 zooms)
DA Limited (5 primes)
DA WR (3 zooms)
DA AW (1 prime)
DA* (3 zooms, 3 primes)
FA (not really sure which of them still in production)
FA Limited (3 primes)
D FA (1 prime)
D FA WR (1 prime)

It's probably enough with 3-4 lens series in each of APS-C and FF.
DA L
DA WR
DA Limited
DA AW
D FA WR
D FA Limited
D FA AW

The added cost of WR is not much, so Pentax has a lot to win to make all "standard" lenses with simplified weather sealing. That might be the easiest way of making a distinctive difference from competition, and might make a big difference on Pentax image as a brand. If they can make cheap DA L zooms with WR they can easily do it on other lenses too without much added cost.

AW weather sealing is more complex and add more cost, so it should only be used on high performance lenses, and will probably mainly be used on FF lenses in the future.

Andi Lo · 09-24-2013, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Personally, I'm not bothered by the lack of a WR 35 mm or any wider lens. To my mind, a weather resistant zoom makes much more sense than a prime as it can obviate the need to change lenses in inclement weather. I would exclude telephotos from this as activities such as birding often take place in less than ideal conditions. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a WR 35mm, I'm merely suggesting that it might not be as large as some people seem to think. If you really want weather resistance, Pentax has it covered from 16mm to 300mm in its DA* range.

I disagree, I thing the 35mm WR would really sell the pentax format. The DA 16-50 and its friends aren't exactly cheap. At the moment our only option for cheap WR is the "crummy" 18-55 50-200 kitlenses, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Spec / value wise the DA 35 is a lost cause vs the Nikon AFS 35 (Nikon 35 is a very good lens), so I'd love to see a DA L 35 WR and DA L 50 WR, to make it a real selling point. I would definitely buy the 35 if prices are kept sane. Think about it: it is cheap, performs great, has wide aperture, easy to carry, virtually weightless, fully weather sealed, and its shake reduced! No other manufacturer can claim that.

I think DA 35m macro is a prime candidate for WR but seeing that we already have it redone in HD I lose hope of ever seeing it in WR flavor anytime soon

Na Horuk · 09-24-2013, 01:13 PM

Aww, yeah, a WR prime between 24mm and 35mm would be awesome. WR, HD, silent screw drive AF, maybe internal focus and DoF scales.. would sell great, even if its not as compact as the Pentax primes usually are

dankoBanana · 09-24-2013, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Na Horuk

Aww, yeah, a WR prime between 24mm and 35mm would be awesome. WR, HD, silent screw drive AF, maybe internal focus and DoF scales.. would sell great, even if its not as compact as the Pentax primes usually are

I'd buy a 24-28mm WR prime in a hearbeat

robjmitchell · 09-24-2013, 02:10 PM

Weather seal the limited zoom on the roadmap!

**monochrome** · 09-24-2013, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by robjmitchell

Weather seal the limited zoom on the roadmap!

I think the Limited Zoom on the roadmap [EDIT: This isn't right, as been pointed out below. I was referring to the DA* (approx.) 17~70, which is now only DA] isn't Limited any more, which might mean it is Weather Resistant instead.

**Clarkey** · 09-24-2013, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

Personally, I'm not bothered by the lack of a WR 35 mm or any wider lens. To my mind, a weather resistant zoom makes much more sense than a prime as it can obviate the need to change lenses in inclement weather. I would exclude telephotos from this as activities such as birding often take place in less than ideal conditions. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a WR 35mm, I'm merely suggesting that it might not be as large as some people seem to think. If you really want weather resistance, Pentax has it covered from 16mm to 300mm in its DA* range.

Point taken, they do - with pricey lenses, but in line with the competition. As others mention, I would think there is a gap for the mid range lenses to be WR/ with DC motors. I would buy both the 17-70 and 55-300 if offered like this, at full retail.

Originally posted by monochrome

I think the Limited Zoom on the roadmap isn't Limited any more, which might mean it is Weather Resistant instead.

I'm hoping it is a rework of the 17-70 with a smaller front element, and completion of the WR (since the current 17-70 has the rear ring), together with the DC motor. And yes, I will buy one, if the optical quality is better than the 18-135mm at equivalent focal lengths.

**Clarkey** · 09-24-2013, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by snake

Don't forget that Pentax really pushes the primes more than most companies, to the point that this is a reason to get into Pentax over other companies. Yet they don't have a truly fast 35 (the 2.4 is ok, but not fast), and the FA35 is pretty insanely priced, if you can get one (1,000+ Euros now in Germany). The 31 could fit that bill, to some extent.

The bigger thing is that Pentax has a confused line up; there is no WR fast 35. They are dedicated to APSc, or so we think and see, but they only made a 55 as a fast, WR lens. Few are using that as their "normal" lens.

Pentax needs to produce a WR, fast 35 for "normal" FL shooters. And finally produce a fast 24, one of the "classic" focal lengths that has resurged in popularity in the last few years. Preferably WR, to compete with the street shooting cams, like the X100, RX1, X2, and so on.

If Pentax had any vision to do so, it can make itself the choice of streetshooters, war shooters, correspondents, desert, etc. With sealed versions of those lenses. The hipsters would buy in like crazy if they found out they could shoot in the rain.

The 31 is the 600 pound gorilla in the room. Why would they want to offer a (potentially better) option than a revered (and expensive) lens.

**filoxophy** · 09-24-2013, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

I think the Limited Zoom on the roadmap isn't Limited any more, which might mean it is Weather Resistant instead.

The most recent roadmap I saw (linked on OP of the "new roadmap" thread) still says DA Zoom Limited, with an approximate range of 20-40mm.

Others have said this I think, but I would like to see this lens be the spiritual successor to the F35-70. How about a 20-50/3.5 the size of, say, the 35 Ltd for $800? :-) Any takers?

**monochrome** · 09-24-2013, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by filoxophy

The most recent roadmap I saw (linked on OP of the "new roadmap" thread) still says DA Zoom Limited, with an approximate range of 20-40mm.

Others have said this I think, but I would like to see this lens be the spiritual successor to the F35-70. How about a 20-50/3.5 the size of, say, the 35 Ltd for $800? :-) Any takers?

[EDIT: The DA (approx.) 17~70 was originally DA*, not DA Limited. I was incorrect in this post]

The 17-70-ish (rumored to be f/2.8 constant) is no longer Limited, only the 20-40 zoom..

wed7 · 09-24-2013, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

The 17-70-ish (rumored to be f/2.8 constant)

I hope Pentax will consider this WR

Mistral75 · 09-24-2013, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

The 17-70-ish (rumored to be f/2.8 constant) is no longer Limited, only the 20-40 zoom..

It never was; it was labelled as DA*.

09-24-2013, 08:34 AM	#560
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Personally, I'm not bothered by the lack of a WR 35 mm or any wider lens. To my mind, a weather resistant zoom makes much more sense than a prime as it can obviate the need to change lenses in inclement weather. I would exclude telephotos from this as activities such as birding often take place in less than ideal conditions. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a WR 35mm, I'm merely suggesting that it might not be as large as some people seem to think. If you really want weather resistance, Pentax has it covered from 16mm to 300mm in its DA* range. I disagree, I thing the 35mm WR would really sell the pentax format. The DA 16-50 and its friends aren't exactly cheap. At the moment our only option for cheap WR is the "crummy" 18-55 50-200 kitlenses, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Spec / value wise the DA 35 is a lost cause vs the Nikon AFS 35 (Nikon 35 is a very good lens), so I'd love to see a DA L 35 WR and DA L 50 WR, to make it a real selling point. I would definitely buy the 35 if prices are kept sane. Think about it: it is cheap, performs great, has wide aperture, easy to carry, virtually weightless, fully weather sealed, and its shake reduced! No other manufacturer can claim that. I think DA 35m macro is a prime candidate for WR but seeing that we already have it redone in HD I lose hope of ever seeing it in WR flavor anytime soon Last edited by Andi Lo; 09-24-2013 at 08:40 AM.

09-24-2013, 02:38 PM	#564
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by robjmitchell Weather seal the limited zoom on the roadmap! I think the Limited Zoom on the roadmap [EDIT: This isn't right, as been pointed out below. I was referring to the DA* (approx.) 17~70, which is now only DA] isn't Limited any more, which might mean it is Weather Resistant instead. Last edited by monochrome; 09-25-2013 at 06:14 AM.

09-24-2013, 02:52 PM	#565
Clarkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brampton, ON, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,456	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Personally, I'm not bothered by the lack of a WR 35 mm or any wider lens. To my mind, a weather resistant zoom makes much more sense than a prime as it can obviate the need to change lenses in inclement weather. I would exclude telephotos from this as activities such as birding often take place in less than ideal conditions. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a WR 35mm, I'm merely suggesting that it might not be as large as some people seem to think. If you really want weather resistance, Pentax has it covered from 16mm to 300mm in its DA* range. Point taken, they do - with pricey lenses, but in line with the competition. As others mention, I would think there is a gap for the mid range lenses to be WR/ with DC motors. I would buy both the 17-70 and 55-300 if offered like this, at full retail. Originally posted by monochrome I think the Limited Zoom on the roadmap isn't Limited any more, which might mean it is Weather Resistant instead. I'm hoping it is a rework of the 17-70 with a smaller front element, and completion of the WR (since the current 17-70 has the rear ring), together with the DC motor. And yes, I will buy one, if the optical quality is better than the 18-135mm at equivalent focal lengths. Last edited by Clarkey; 09-24-2013 at 02:53 PM. Reason: posted prior to finishing.

09-24-2013, 08:36 PM	#568
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by filoxophy The most recent roadmap I saw (linked on OP of the "new roadmap" thread) still says DA Zoom Limited, with an approximate range of 20-40mm. Others have said this I think, but I would like to see this lens be the spiritual successor to the F35-70. How about a 20-50/3.5 the size of, say, the 35 Ltd for $800? :-) Any takers? [EDIT: The DA (approx.) 17~70 was originally DA, not DA Limited. I was incorrect in this post] The 17-70-ish (rumored to be f/2.8 constant)* is no longer Limited, only the 20-40 zoom.. Last edited by monochrome; 09-25-2013 at 06:16 AM.

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09-24-2013, 03:48 AM	#556
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199	Personally, I'm not bothered by the lack of a WR 35 mm or any wider lens. To my mind, a weather resistant zoom makes much more sense than a prime as it can obviate the need to change lenses in inclement weather. I would exclude telephotos from this as activities such as birding often take place in less than ideal conditions. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a WR 35mm, I'm merely suggesting that it might not be as large as some people seem to think. If you really want weather resistance, Pentax has it covered from 16mm to 300mm in its DA* range.

09-24-2013, 03:59 AM	#557
snake Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: NY/Germany Posts: 1,183	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Personally, I'm not bothered by the lack of a WR 35 mm or any wider lens. To my mind, a weather resistant zoom makes much more sense than a prime as it can obviate the need to change lenses in inclement weather. I would exclude telephotos from this as activities such as birding often take place in less than ideal conditions. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a WR 35mm, I'm merely suggesting that it might not be as large as some people seem to think. If you really want weather resistance, Pentax has it covered from 16mm to 300mm in its DA* range. The thinking here is somewhat as if there is a vacuum. Some don't want zooms. This is established already, and Pentax, once again, prides itself on being a company built on its line of primes. Those are the ones people will get. If prime demand wasn't huge, then Fuji would not have had $150,000,000 in revenue in the year after the introduction of the x100. People demand primes for the best quality and fewest compromises possible. Every shoot I go to, people are using primes, whether it be astro shoots, runways in NYC, concerts, etc. Not to mention, the DA/SDM lenses have a very poor reputaiton, plus their pricing is scaring people away from Pentax altogether. To not seal their primes, which are overpriced to begin with, also suggests shortcutting and compromise. To seal a 55 that is designed for APSc (so it has an 83mm FL) looks confused, at best. To have a 35 that is slow and expensive and to not even have a 24 (no, the slow 21 is not a replacement), all send out very bad signals of the people who were at the helm inside Pentax.

09-24-2013, 04:20 AM	#558
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by snake Those are not "normal" focal lengths by any stretch. At best, as mentioned, the 55 is a slight telephoto. Pentax is missing two of the major "classic" focal lengths: the 35 and 50. I would not mind havind DA*24/2... To companie my DA55

09-24-2013, 04:25 AM	#559
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	I think Pentax has too many lens series in production, and it makes it difficult for them to make the lens series complete. If they cut down lens series to at least half of them, they probably end up with a better lens line up for the future. But if they continue do the same on FF lenses as they done on APS-C lenses they could end up with 15+ different lens series. DA L (3 zooms) DA L WR (2 zooms) DA (3 primes, 5 zooms) DA Limited (5 primes) DA WR (3 zooms) DA AW (1 prime) DA* (3 zooms, 3 primes) FA (not really sure which of them still in production) FA Limited (3 primes) D FA (1 prime) D FA WR (1 prime) It's probably enough with 3-4 lens series in each of APS-C and FF. DA L DA WR DA Limited DA AW D FA WR D FA Limited D FA AW The added cost of WR is not much, so Pentax has a lot to win to make all "standard" lenses with simplified weather sealing. That might be the easiest way of making a distinctive difference from competition, and might make a big difference on Pentax image as a brand. If they can make cheap DA L zooms with WR they can easily do it on other lenses too without much added cost. AW weather sealing is more complex and add more cost, so it should only be used on high performance lenses, and will probably mainly be used on FF lenses in the future.

09-24-2013, 01:13 PM	#561
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Aww, yeah, a WR prime between 24mm and 35mm would be awesome. WR, HD, silent screw drive AF, maybe internal focus and DoF scales.. would sell great, even if its not as compact as the Pentax primes usually are

09-24-2013, 01:22 PM	#562
dankoBanana Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 533	Originally posted by Na Horuk Aww, yeah, a WR prime between 24mm and 35mm would be awesome. WR, HD, silent screw drive AF, maybe internal focus and DoF scales.. would sell great, even if its not as compact as the Pentax primes usually are I'd buy a 24-28mm WR prime in a hearbeat

09-24-2013, 02:10 PM	#563
robjmitchell Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Aus Posts: 1,776	Weather seal the limited zoom on the roadmap!

09-24-2013, 02:55 PM	#566
Clarkey Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Brampton, ON, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,456	Originally posted by snake Don't forget that Pentax really pushes the primes more than most companies, to the point that this is a reason to get into Pentax over other companies. Yet they don't have a truly fast 35 (the 2.4 is ok, but not fast), and the FA35 is pretty insanely priced, if you can get one (1,000+ Euros now in Germany). The 31 could fit that bill, to some extent. The bigger thing is that Pentax has a confused line up; there is no WR fast 35. They are dedicated to APSc, or so we think and see, but they only made a 55 as a fast, WR lens. Few are using that as their "normal" lens. Pentax needs to produce a WR, fast 35 for "normal" FL shooters. And finally produce a fast 24, one of the "classic" focal lengths that has resurged in popularity in the last few years. Preferably WR, to compete with the street shooting cams, like the X100, RX1, X2, and so on. If Pentax had any vision to do so, it can make itself the choice of streetshooters, war shooters, correspondents, desert, etc. With sealed versions of those lenses. The hipsters would buy in like crazy if they found out they could shoot in the rain. The 31 is the 600 pound gorilla in the room. Why would they want to offer a (potentially better) option than a revered (and expensive) lens.

09-24-2013, 07:41 PM	#567
filoxophy Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 1,132	Originally posted by monochrome I think the Limited Zoom on the roadmap isn't Limited any more, which might mean it is Weather Resistant instead. The most recent roadmap I saw (linked on OP of the "new roadmap" thread) still says DA Zoom Limited, with an approximate range of 20-40mm. Others have said this I think, but I would like to see this lens be the spiritual successor to the F35-70. How about a 20-50/3.5 the size of, say, the 35 Ltd for $800? :-) Any takers?

09-24-2013, 09:42 PM	#569
wed7 Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 1,421	Originally posted by monochrome The 17-70-ish (rumored to be f/2.8 constant) I hope Pentax will consider this WR

09-24-2013, 10:31 PM	#570
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome The 17-70-ish (rumored to be f/2.8 constant) is no longer Limited, only the 20-40 zoom.. It never was; it was labelled as DA*.