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08-29-2013, 04:36 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
What proportion of people thinking of buying those lenses have even heard of the SDM problems? I have bought 4 SDM lenses over the last 4+ years, and only recently read that SDM had been an issue. I suspect that those who know about them are a small part of the Ricoh/Pentax market for lenses.

Having bought those lenses, (one of which "hunted" when new and was immediately replaced), I keep using them and they keep working. My DA* 60-250mm f/4 and DA* 300mm f/4 suffer treatment that I should be prosecuted for, yet continue to work without complaint. (So far!)
Srs? The SDM issue has come up time and time again. I believe some models were more prone to failure than others, but there was definitely an issue there and Pentax has never officially addressed it. In saying that, they may have worked out the bugs so that failures in recently made lenses are dramatically reduced in frequency. Even so I would have expected some kind of official acknowledgement to indicate that newer DA* lenses are different. If Pentax "re-released" the DA* range with an HD coating as they have with the limiteds I would be more inclined to buy one because I would assume they had reviewed the SDM as well (even though it could be a false assumption)

08-29-2013, 05:47 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by noVICE Quote
Srs? The SDM issue has come up time and time again.
Yes, I'm sure it has - in forums that most people buying Ricoh/Pentax equipment never read! I don't believe the people who use these forums are representative of the general Pentax-buying public.

(I've been using Pentax SLRs for about 46 years, I've bought many of them during that time, and many lenses, and just got on with my photography, both individually and as part of a photographic society. Yet I only joined these Pentax Forums about a month ago. I joined DPReview about 8 years ago, but not to talk about Pentax equipment).
08-29-2013, 07:12 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
Well, considering the most expensive lens in the entire line-up is not a DA* but a DA, i.e. the DA560/5.6, I wouldn't exclude a worthy DA* grade DA*16-50/2.8 replacement with DA designation...

Wim
Maybe they are looking to phase out the DA* nomenclature completely and use limited/red stripe to denote the high quality range.
Makes sense if you think about the DA 50 1.8 and DA 35 2.4
08-29-2013, 02:24 PM   #64
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Is there anything on this new road map that was not on the last road map? The TC which has been on every road map for the last 7 years.

08-29-2013, 02:41 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Is there anything on this new road map that was not on the last road map? The TC which has been on every road map for the last 7 years.
Famous Pentax lens roadmap is one of best modern works of surreal fiction — Ed Woods meets Star Trek. It is especially thrilling when you are focused on a plot started in the beginning, but which is still unresolved, plenty of characters walk around with bags on their heads, and all of a sudden never before announced characters start appearing from the thin air, all in red and with posh accents, beaming away current cast and resuming their identities.

Last edited by Uluru; 08-29-2013 at 02:53 PM.
08-29-2013, 03:26 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Is there anything on this new road map that was not on the last road map? The TC which has been on every road map for the last 7 years.
In essence, no!

I quoted the numbers and identified the differences here.
08-29-2013, 03:33 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Famous Pentax lens roadmap is one of best modern works of surreal fiction — Ed Woods meets Star Trek. It is especially thrilling when you are focused on a plot started in the beginning, but which is still unresolved, plenty of characters walk around with bags on their heads, and all of a sudden never before announced characters start appearing from the thin air, all in red and with posh accents, beaming away current cast and resuming their identities.
There have been 34 items in total on all roadmaps from January 2012. But the January 2012 roadmap had 2 sets of predictions: for 2012 (or so) and 2013 (or so), 3 items and 5 items respectively.

The December 2012 roadmap showed that the 2012 (or so) predictions (3 items) had been launched, so showed just one set of predictions, for 2013 (or so). Still 5 items.

The latest roadmap is much the same, except for detailed changes. So will they repeat the success of the 2012 roadmaps, and launch the 2013 predictions when they said they were going to? We will know over the next few months.
08-29-2013, 03:46 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Is there anything on this new road map that was not on the last road map? The TC which has been on every road map for the last 7 years.
7 years! I feel crestfallen - I was hoping to see it this year.

08-29-2013, 04:09 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by noVICE Quote
Pentax has never officially addressed it.
Actually they did. In an interview at Photokina last year. If you mean by releasing a press release or some other 'official' notification, then no. But as Barry stated, the majority of Pentax users never heard there was a problem. Pentax (or any company) going on record that they have a defect is just not going to happen. IMHO they should have issued a service bulletin that allowed repair shops to fix the issue for free when a lens was sent in with SDM failure, in or out of warranty. But that's just me. At any rate I have complete confidence in buying NEW SDM lenses, used ones I'm still cautious about although my 60-250 was bought used and so far no issues.

QuoteQuote:
Q: Our survey found that the Pentax DA* 16-50mm and 50-135mm were the most prone to SDM failure. Do you know why this was?
A: One could say that the AF components used in these lenses was prone to failure from the get-go due to their design. The 16-50mm and 50-135mm lenses share the same circuitry and motor, which is why they both have such a high failure rate. Other SDM lenses don't fail as much.


Q: Has this SDM quality control issue been resolved?
A: Yes. The components used in the 16-50mm and 50-135mm lenses have been redesigned, and all lenses produced in 2012 or later should no longer fail.
Pentax Engineer on SDM Failure and Pentax DC - Photokina 2012 - PentaxForums.com


08-29-2013, 11:27 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Actually they did. In an interview at Photokina last year. If you mean by releasing a press release or some other 'official' notification, then no. But as Barry stated, the majority of Pentax users never heard there was a problem. Pentax (or any company) going on record that they have a defect is just not going to happen.
It seems to be normal in the car industry. How many times has Toyota recalled a model in the last 5 years? If that's not acknowledgement, I don't know what is.
08-30-2013, 01:20 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Famous Pentax lens roadmap is one of best modern works of surreal fiction — Ed Woods meets Star Trek. It is especially thrilling when you are focused on a plot started in the beginning, but which is still unresolved, plenty of characters walk around with bags on their heads, and all of a sudden never before announced characters start appearing from the thin air, all in red and with posh accents, beaming away current cast and resuming their identities.
Sounds more like Eugène Ionesco than Ed Wood!
08-30-2013, 01:30 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Actually they did. In an interview at Photokina last year. If you mean by releasing a press release or some other 'official' notification, then no. But as Barry stated, the majority of Pentax users never heard there was a problem. Pentax (or any company) going on record that they have a defect is just not going to happen. IMHO they should have issued a service bulletin that allowed repair shops to fix the issue for free when a lens was sent in with SDM failure, in or out of warranty. But that's just me. At any rate I have complete confidence in buying NEW SDM lenses, used ones I'm still cautious about although my 60-250 was bought used and so far no issues.
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Something like that happened here. One member of the Dutch forum got his SDM problem repaired for free by using the statement in the interview. So maybe there is a service bulletin issued but you have to use the given statement as a ground for a free repair.
08-30-2013, 02:24 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
It seems to be normal in the car industry. How many times has Toyota recalled a model in the last 5 years? If that's not acknowledgement, I don't know what is.
The car recalls that have involved my cars over the years have normally been for safety issues.
08-30-2013, 04:20 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Barry Pearson Quote
The car recalls that have involved my cars over the years have normally been for safety issues.
Because the United States government (through the NTSB - thank you Ralph Nader) regulates the industry and mandates the recalls, or has so scared the beejezus out of the car makers that they are self-regulating.
08-30-2013, 09:30 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
How many times has Toyota recalled a model in the last 5 years? If that's not acknowledgement, I don't know what is.
At least in the US the auto industry is closely regulated and any potential safety issues must have a recall notice issued. That's the law and even if the government did not require it, the lawsuits would. I don't think you can compare cameras and autos in this situation. There is no comparable legislation for non-auto products except perhaps "child safety" regulations that concern stroller, baby cribs and so on.

QuoteOriginally posted by Franc Quote
Something like that happened here. One member of the Dutch forum got his SDM problem repaired for free by using the statement in the interview. So maybe there is a service bulletin issued but you have to use the given statement as a ground for a free repair.
I have seen over time a number of posts from people who state that an SDM issue was fixed no charge, and some cases where a lens went in for something else and the work order said the SDM was also replaced. These reports are all second or third hand but I see no reason to disbelieve them.

In a situation like this, where a percentage of the product will fail earlier than expected, I would expect a service bulletin to be issued to repair shops stating that if a lens comes in, to fix the SDM while it is in. I would not throw the company on the proverbial sword by publicly announcing anything. If (just speculating) 10% of the lenses fail then those should be fixed but why issue a recall and have all 100% sent in to have something fixed that won't ever break? You have a huge cost to fix something not broken and you inconvenience a lot of customers that have to be without their lens while it is in the shop. That's in an ideal situation, and I've no idea what Pentax did, if anything. And what they did or did not do may have changed over time as ownership changed. And add in different distributor in different regions with different management and it is easy to see why no consistent action was taken.
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