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04-10-2008, 10:06 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
Of course she's either kidding or, more likely, blowing smoke based on wishful thinking and the posts of others.

Search these forums; Wendy is a well-known "insider-who-is-really-on-the-outside" trying to be vague in hopes she will somehow appear better informed. Kind of like a "math expert" who says "well, 2x2= another number that might just be more than 2, but I can't really say because I'm important and I have grown up things to do."

Good for some light entertainment, in any case...
It would be of your perception of this. I have more than thirty years of experience with my Pentax Rep. How many years do you have under your belt?

04-11-2008, 12:46 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
...
I've had no trouble selling them at 1299 and neither has any other "real" dealer.
...
Watching these prices on Amazon is stupid IMO because it's just a camera and if you aren't willing to spend the money its worth then why eve buy the camera? It's definitely worth 1299 so I'm not seeing this fascination in stores who suck dropping prices...
Good for you that you have no trouble selling at your chosen price point, but I can't agree that it's "stupid" to watch and compare prices.

For me, the price difference "savings" of $220 is significant.

Seriously. Pentax SMCP-FA 50mm f/1.4 significant... with $20 left to eat on. :-) Free shipping was nice too.

I'm unclear what your definition of a "real" dealer even is.

I'm guessing it has nothing to do with volume of sales, in which Amazon, Adorama & BHPhoto ( all of whom offer the K20D for below your quoted MSRP of $1299) no doubt excel.

Or if your criteria is that they must have a 'storefront retail' location, Adorama, BHPhoto, and Beach Camera all meet that criteria - yet all sell the K20D for less than $1299.

To my knowledge they're also all (yes even Amazon) authorized Pentax distributors. That certainly sounds real to me.

If I needed to define it myself, a "real" dealer is one who supports their product and customers. And I've certainly gotten far better service from Amazon than from any of the local camera stores. Amazon also doesn't hold my order until they call me and attempt an accesories 'up-sell'.

Likewise I don't know why you feel "stores who suck (for) dropping prices". If they follow their sales strategy and provide the same (or better) service to the customer while making a profit for themselves... what's the problem? Perhaps it "sucks" that other stores have to compete? You stated that you have no trouble selling them for hundreds more, so why again do you feel that the other stores suck?

So, at the same, (or quite possibly better service) from an Authorized distributor, like Amazon, why pay an additional $220 for the same exact item? Well... if the money went straight to Pentax R&D maybe. :-)

But I'm happier supporting the above mentioned stores, which have supported me as well, and pocketing the extra $220 myself.

I'm a bit puzzled by your statement that I take to mean that we should, based on your assertion that the camera is "worth it", simply pay MSRP - even when other sell the exact same item for much less.

My K20D is in shipping, so I can't speak directly as to what it's "worth" yet.. to me. But I do fully expect that it will be "worth" every penny... to me. I suggest that the camera is "worth" different price points to different people, not simply a value determined by the MSRP. Ultimately an item's monetary value must be determined by that zone of intersection of "what it's available for" and "what people will pay for it".

But maybe I'm odd. I compare prices on many of the purchases I make.

I even compare gas station prices. I've never paid MSRP for an automobile. And I didn't pay MSRP on my new camera.

Not sure why I would.

That would suck.

Last edited by Cedar; 04-11-2008 at 01:52 AM. Reason: shortened it. really.
04-11-2008, 01:53 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by WendyB Quote
Thank You for uncommon common sense.
Uncommon sure. What did you agree with?
04-11-2008, 04:21 AM   #79
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Well said, Cedar!

Methinks the market will ultimately set the real price for the K20, and if someone wants to pay hundreds more because they are in the habit of paying full MSRP for their purchases , then it just goes to show that ol' P.T. Barnum got it right...

Like most, I've had nothing but great experiences dealing with the online dealers you mentioned. It's the little local dealers I'd be leary of.

04-11-2008, 05:32 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by WendyB Quote
I have more than thirty years of experience with my Pentax Rep.
QuoteOriginally posted by WendyB Quote
and sunbathing topless (eat your heart out).
Yikes!!! I sure will eat my heart out.

Ps. Have you dealt with your pentax rep since you were 6? Wow, these geniouses kids....
04-11-2008, 06:08 AM   #81
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Wendy B says that she has 30 years experience with her Pentax rep but in her profile states that she is 37 ? - 30 = 6 ? I learned from when I sold cameras at a local camera shop that the reps usually knew less about new product than we did. In the past Wendy and others made predictions about the new K20D that proved to be totally untrue. Unless they saw another beta camera that wasn't released yet! As for pricing, the market will set the prices. However a dealer friend of mine was all set to order a bunch of K10D's at Christmas time and was totally frustrated by the fact that he could order them cheaper from B&H than he could from Pentax. Go figure? I'm sure Chris knows what I'm talking about.
04-11-2008, 08:02 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by WendyB Quote
It would be of your perception of this. I have more than thirty years of experience with my Pentax Rep. How many years do you have under your belt?
From this outsider, it appears that you swallowed the Rep's marketing hype regarding the pricing, hook, line and sinker.
04-11-2008, 08:27 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Okay.

Turns out, what you're saying is basically FUD.

Beach/buydig has over 9/10 at Reseller Ratings. I'm not scared.

Amazon's sold-by-Amazon price is, right now, $1134.99. (Not counting the "gold box" deal some people are seeing, which is also directly from Amazon.) So that includes the normal easy 30 day return and price matching, etc., etc.
Man, Beach really must have shaped up...

Back in the early/mid-90s, Beach's brick and mortar operation on Route 22 in NJ was regarded by locals as one of the shadiest camera stores a person could go to in the area. (I grew up about 20-30 minutes away from their B&M establishment. No one in my family or any of our friends would shop there, because anyone who decided they'd try doing so got screwed.)

04-11-2008, 08:34 AM   #84
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Gruoso-

are you sure you didn't mean to say you would poke your eyes out with a sharp stick?

As for listening to marketing reps in the U.S. does anyone really believe they are privy to all the future plans of the company? They are salesmen for goodness sake! They don't sit in on strategy meetings in the boardroom.

On the subject of reps - Pentax U.S. recently had a mass exodus of said reps. as a result of the Hoya takeover (according to Ned B.). Apparently they all had the option to stay, but many (most?) left.

I would presume the better ones who would have no problems finding positions with other companies left. Those, uh, less than stellar performers would be more likely to stay, would they not?

Now- if these "insiders" felt that Pentax was performing well now and that the future was all nice and rosy, why would they be rushing for the exits?

I would imagine Samsung is ramping up their staff hiring in the U.S. in anticipation of making a charge at the market. They have the $$ to pick and choose and hire the best, unlike Pentax.

All this is idle speculation by someone who readily admits to having no contacts at all in the camera business, but is probably just as plausible as anything that's been produced by all the veiled "insider" comments that surface here from time to time.
04-11-2008, 09:05 AM   #85
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Tom,
From what I heard from a dealer is that the reps didn't have much of a choice. They got a nice severance package and the rep for this area even got her health insurance paid till she reaches age 65. The change may be a good thing.
04-11-2008, 09:31 AM   #86
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Kent-

quote from Ned B.:

"Since these new roles require pretty unique skill sets, we offered our current sales force an opportunity to apply for these new positions or accept a very generous resignation package. While many of the sales force choose to leave the company, we retained some of our staff and will be looking for new account managers and sales support reps ('Pentaxians') to help us spread the word about how great Pentax cameras are."

I guess this spin sounded better than the truth.
04-11-2008, 10:08 AM   #87
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Original Poster
Tom

It's my understanding Pentax uses a mix of direct sales people and independent reps for smaller markets. It is usually much less expensive to employ independent reps than direct people and my guess is Pentax is changing to a complete independent rep system for the dealer network. Key Account in house people will probably be hired. Either way a good sales manager will tell you the best way to manage a sales force is to treat them like mushrooms so listening to them is never a good idea.

Ken
04-11-2008, 10:23 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by WendyB Quote
under your belt?
in inches ???
04-11-2008, 10:38 AM   #89
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Wow, I can see that we even have some negative opinions on the current dropping price of the K20D. Doesn't matter if the camera is worth $1400, if there is a place that you can get one cheaper, it would be good for the buyer and the sale #. No need to stay at the MSRP.

Looking at the Sony A700, the MSRP has been hovering there for a while, even though the demand is not that great. I think it just depends on how Hoya/Pentax dealt with these retailers.

Personally, I think it's better for the retailers to dictate the price. Low price will move more camera and Pentax still sells cameras to these retailers at the same price. I don't really kick myself later when the price will drop to $900 (undoubtly a little regret). I get it when I need it.
04-11-2008, 11:35 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by deejjjaaaa Quote
in inches ???
No, in feet
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