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09-05-2013, 04:56 PM   #106
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I can't seem to shake the feeling though that those in Asian might be the ones to go bonkers over this thing, create some insane images with it, and leave a few months from now we will all be tempted to buy one in the US. Ok...probably not.

09-05-2013, 05:10 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
So far they have shown no capacity to excite.
Remember the lens sales fiasco?
The GR launch and distribution problems.
Such things don't happen to Sony. Ricoh's CEO is excited about the new line of business document machines. Sony's CEO personally ignited the RX1 project and is supervising it. Answers users emails himself, shows he cares.
Ricoh is not a consumer brand, that shows, their HQ are two walls behind the consumer.
I don't want to get into an argument about words, but none of that shows they are worthy of your word "dilettante", even if any of it is demonstrably true. I don't question your first or your last two points, by the way, but they only show the differences in culture between the two companies. However, I think the GR, whatever real or imagined problems there may have been with getting it to market, is a real photographer's camera, and indicates to me that the company is serious about cameras. The re-bodying and re-pricing of the K30 as the K-50 and K-500 shows they are aware of the price sensitivity at that end of the DSLR market. The incremental work on the Limited DA lenses indicates a commitment to improvement, too.

So, I repeat: "dilettante" is not an appropriate criticism to throw at Ricoh for their management of the Pentax brand. As for Sony, they may be exciting, but making a profit doesn't seem to be within the remit of their consumer products division, so what word would you use to describe that?
09-05-2013, 05:23 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
I don't want to get into an argument about words, but none of that shows they are worthy of your word "dilettante", even if any of it is demonstrably true. I don't question your first or your last two points, by the way, but they only show the differences in culture between the two companies. However, I think the GR, whatever real or imagined problems there may have been with getting it to market, is a real photographer's camera, and indicates to me that the company is serious about cameras. The re-bodying and re-pricing of the K30 as the K-50 and K-500 shows they are aware of the price sensitivity at that end of the DSLR market. The incremental work on the Limited DA lenses indicates a commitment to improvement, too.

So, I repeat: "dilettante" is not an appropriate criticism to throw at Ricoh for their management of the Pentax brand. As for Sony, they may be exciting, but making a profit doesn't seem to be within the remit of their consumer products division, so what word would you use to describe that?
Their new Theta camera is absolutely simple and beautiful.
It was clearly inspired by iDevices by Apple, and it doesn't matter because iDevices are the measure of a good standard today.
So I welcome their efforts in understanding of the consumer market, and willing to take into it.

However, in corporate talks and reports, they refer to Pentax acquisition as a "traditional camera business, that has cost us ...". They talk cost, not opportunities. Their CEO talks about "they have shown me some numbers ..." when talking about Q. I wonder if he has even seen one in real life, took some care about its development? But he is all over the moon and personally present in showrooms when talking about multi-million $ document machines for some business partners.

Do you see the difference? To succeed in the consumer market, what they do with Pentax must change. They can't wait 2 years till the acquisition settles to start thinking "what to do now re Pentax brand consumers?". That is so wrong! That also shows they have had other plans for Pentax too, to help in their optics, security and in other b2b purposes.

They needed to start doing something right after the acquisition, and a saying "good things are coming" has no place in consumer market – it's a deadly sin! That could be said in confidence to b2b partners, but absolutely not to consumers! No wonder consumers are damn frustrated.

I hope you understand why I call them amateurs. I don't bash the new product, but their attitude in many matters is so damn wrong.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-05-2013 at 05:28 PM.
09-05-2013, 06:41 PM - 1 Like   #109
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I don't think Ricoh had a plan with Pentax. They saw it as an asset with some diverse options to tap to enhance their other lines of business, especially their existing camera business.

I think Ricoh largely depended on the existing Pentax brain trust for direction.

09-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
The GR launch and distribution problems.
Such things don't happen to Sony.
Yes they do.

Sony's had awful problems getting some lenses in sock and their RX-1 EVF was (maybe still is) very difficult to come by and severely back-ordered.

Small volume, high-price items like the GR in little niches are always going to run short on inventory. There are very few customers for $700 compact cameras.
09-05-2013, 06:46 PM   #111
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Ricoh Theta: the product name does nothing for me, and $400... are u kidding? Maybe for $125, maybe. This product is done before it starts. (Ricoh wants to delay the pain of learning the cost, I clicked like crazy on the Theta page and never linked to a price. I had to go to a news page to learn the price. $400!!! Jeez.)

On a more positive note, they got the design right. It smacks of the white ipod shuffle that was out a couple of generations ago. It looks very good and the buttons are smartly done. Using the phone to trip the shutter is cool, and the tripod socket is good (and required!!).

Last edited by OrangeKx; 09-05-2013 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Added text.
09-05-2013, 06:51 PM   #112
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I wish

I wish they had developed a trail view type backend so people could upload a stream of images that would give a 'Google Street view' type experience instead of just single images. Then you could have an open community of people uploading hikes and walks where a car doesn't go. You could also make some great exercise equipment virtual reality where the person can look around a bit as they walk that would need video though.

Hey Google buy me one of these and I will walk around with it on my head.

Last edited by Painter; 09-05-2013 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Extra word, grammar error
09-05-2013, 06:54 PM   #113
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At ~ $100 it's a stocking stuffer and would be hard to keep in stock at Photojojo.

You'd see them popping up in Times Square, Piccadilly Circus, Tianenmen Square, the Eiffel Tower, Mount Fuji, the Vatican, and the Kremlin.

They'd have their own Flickr forum.

People would overlook the iffy IQ.

At $399 it's laughed at right away by every comment from Engadget to this forum to DPR.

09-05-2013, 06:57 PM   #114
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Had a look at the theta website and when I finally managed to find photos taken with the camera, I was a bit surprised, to say the least. Surprised in a bad way. I expected to be able to see 360 degree detail of the room. But it's hard to make out any detail at all.
09-05-2013, 07:00 PM   #115
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This one definitely looks underwhelming so far, but imagine if Ricoh could somehow strike a deal with Google. They've been trying to get panoramic images from hikers, etc., for awhile now. Consumer-grade items like this would be awfully attractive to them. If Ricoh could land some sort of partnership with Google, cha-ching!
09-05-2013, 07:05 PM   #116
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Google already has this but it looks like this

09-05-2013, 07:37 PM   #117
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Link on DPR that shows a picture one can play with.
I can sorta see the attraction for the fb crowd. (Well my 11 year old daughter thinks it's cool)
09-05-2013, 08:30 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by Painter Quote
Google already has this but it looks like this
Exactly. I had seen these contraptions. Suffice it to say that I'm not volunteering any time soon.
09-05-2013, 09:40 PM   #119
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I do not really see why anybody would want to buy a camera HW product to create pictures like this.
I myself am not a smartphone user, but a colleague of mine has been using stuff like this 360 Panorama - Realtime panorama creation from Occipital for months if he wanted to show somebody "look, I am here"... works for business as well as private vacation stuff.
Is this what the 400$ camera wants to compete with? An app?
09-05-2013, 09:51 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Yes they do.

Sony's had awful problems getting some lenses in sock and their RX-1 EVF was (maybe still is) very difficult to come by and severely back-ordered.

Small volume, high-price items like the GR in little niches are always going to run short on inventory. There are very few customers for $700 compact cameras.
Considering the sheer number of consumer related products, I suspect it is possible for Sony to under-deliver for some. There's a matter of demand too; when I was enquiring about the RX-1 in weeks after the announcement, it was already pre-sold in Australia.
I think they did that to keep the price steady, the perception of an exclusive product and high demand.
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