Pentax / Ricoh Theta 360 camera

pghwarrior23 · 09-05-2013, 04:56 PM

I can't seem to shake the feeling though that those in Asian might be the ones to go bonkers over this thing, create some insane images with it, and leave a few months from now we will all be tempted to buy one in the US. Ok...probably not.

**RobA_Oz** · 09-05-2013, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by Uluru

So far they have shown no capacity to excite.
Remember the lens sales fiasco?
The GR launch and distribution problems.
Such things don't happen to Sony. Ricoh's CEO is excited about the new line of business document machines. Sony's CEO personally ignited the RX1 project and is supervising it. Answers users emails himself, shows he cares.
Ricoh is not a consumer brand, that shows, their HQ are two walls behind the consumer.

I don't want to get into an argument about words, but none of that shows they are worthy of your word "dilettante", even if any of it is demonstrably true. I don't question your first or your last two points, by the way, but they only show the differences in culture between the two companies. However, I think the GR, whatever real or imagined problems there may have been with getting it to market, is a real photographer's camera, and indicates to me that the company is serious about cameras. The re-bodying and re-pricing of the K30 as the K-50 and K-500 shows they are aware of the price sensitivity at that end of the DSLR market. The incremental work on the Limited DA lenses indicates a commitment to improvement, too.

So, I repeat: "dilettante" is not an appropriate criticism to throw at Ricoh for their management of the Pentax brand. As for Sony, they may be exciting, but making a profit doesn't seem to be within the remit of their consumer products division, so what word would you use to describe that?

Uluru · 09-05-2013, 05:23 PM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

I don't want to get into an argument about words, but none of that shows they are worthy of your word "dilettante", even if any of it is demonstrably true. I don't question your first or your last two points, by the way, but they only show the differences in culture between the two companies. However, I think the GR, whatever real or imagined problems there may have been with getting it to market, is a real photographer's camera, and indicates to me that the company is serious about cameras. The re-bodying and re-pricing of the K30 as the K-50 and K-500 shows they are aware of the price sensitivity at that end of the DSLR market. The incremental work on the Limited DA lenses indicates a commitment to improvement, too.

So, I repeat: "dilettante" is not an appropriate criticism to throw at Ricoh for their management of the Pentax brand. As for Sony, they may be exciting, but making a profit doesn't seem to be within the remit of their consumer products division, so what word would you use to describe that?

Their new Theta camera is absolutely simple and beautiful.
It was clearly inspired by iDevices by Apple, and it doesn't matter because iDevices are the measure of a good standard today.
So I welcome their efforts in understanding of the consumer market, and willing to take into it.

However, in corporate talks and reports, they refer to Pentax acquisition as a "traditional camera business, that has cost us ...". They talk cost, not opportunities. Their CEO talks about "they have shown me some numbers ..." when talking about Q. I wonder if he has even seen one in real life, took some care about its development? But he is all over the moon and personally present in showrooms when talking about multi-million $ document machines for some business partners.

Do you see the difference? To succeed in the consumer market, what they do with Pentax must change. They can't wait 2 years till the acquisition settles to start thinking "what to do now re Pentax brand consumers?". That is so wrong! That also shows they have had other plans for Pentax too, to help in their optics, security and in other b2b purposes.

They needed to start doing something right after the acquisition, and a saying "good things are coming" has no place in consumer market – it's a deadly sin! That could be said in confidence to b2b partners, but absolutely not to consumers! No wonder consumers are damn frustrated.

I hope you understand why I call them amateurs. I don't bash the new product, but their attitude in many matters is so damn wrong.

**Aristophanes** · 09-05-2013, 06:41 PM - **1 Like**

I don't think Ricoh had a plan with Pentax. They saw it as an asset with some diverse options to tap to enhance their other lines of business, especially their existing camera business.

I think Ricoh largely depended on the existing Pentax brain trust for direction.

**Aristophanes** · 09-05-2013, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Uluru

The GR launch and distribution problems.
Such things don't happen to Sony.

Yes they do.

Sony's had awful problems getting some lenses in sock and their RX-1 EVF was (maybe still is) very difficult to come by and severely back-ordered.

Small volume, high-price items like the GR in little niches are always going to run short on inventory. There are very few customers for $700 compact cameras.

**OrangeKx** · 09-05-2013, 06:46 PM

Ricoh Theta: the product name does nothing for me, and $400... are u kidding? Maybe for $125, maybe. This product is done before it starts. (Ricoh wants to delay the pain of learning the cost, I clicked like crazy on the Theta page and never linked to a price. I had to go to a news page to learn the price. $400!!! Jeez.)

On a more positive note, they got the design right. It smacks of the white ipod shuffle that was out a couple of generations ago. It looks very good and the buttons are smartly done. Using the phone to trip the shutter is cool, and the tripod socket is good (and required!!).

Painter · 09-05-2013, 06:51 PM

I wish they had developed a trail view type backend so people could upload a stream of images that would give a 'Google Street view' type experience instead of just single images. Then you could have an open community of people uploading hikes and walks where a car doesn't go. You could also make some great exercise equipment virtual reality where the person can look around a bit as they walk that would need video though.

Hey Google buy me one of these and I will walk around with it on my head.

Last edited by Painter; 09-05-2013 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Extra word, grammar error

**Aristophanes** · 09-05-2013, 06:54 PM

At ~ $100 it's a stocking stuffer and would be hard to keep in stock at Photojojo.

You'd see them popping up in Times Square, Piccadilly Circus, Tianenmen Square, the Eiffel Tower, Mount Fuji, the Vatican, and the Kremlin.

They'd have their own Flickr forum.

People would overlook the iffy IQ.

At $399 it's laughed at right away by every comment from Engadget to this forum to DPR.

calsan · 09-05-2013, 06:57 PM

Had a look at the theta website and when I finally managed to find photos taken with the camera, I was a bit surprised, to say the least. Surprised in a bad way. I expected to be able to see 360 degree detail of the room. But it's hard to make out any detail at all.

ofer4 · 09-05-2013, 07:00 PM

This one definitely looks underwhelming so far, but imagine if Ricoh could somehow strike a deal with Google. They've been trying to get panoramic images from hikers, etc., for awhile now. Consumer-grade items like this would be awfully attractive to them. If Ricoh could land some sort of partnership with Google, cha-ching!

Painter · 09-05-2013, 07:05 PM

**ak_kiwi** · 09-05-2013, 07:37 PM

Link on DPR that shows a picture one can play with.
I can sorta see the attraction for the fb crowd. (Well my 11 year old daughter thinks it's cool)

ofer4 · 09-05-2013, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Painter

Google already has this but it looks like this

Exactly. I had seen these contraptions. Suffice it to say that I'm not volunteering any time soon.

wullemaha · 09-05-2013, 09:40 PM

I do not really see why anybody would want to buy a camera HW product to create pictures like this.
I myself am not a smartphone user, but a colleague of mine has been using stuff like this 360 Panorama - Realtime panorama creation from Occipital for months if he wanted to show somebody "look, I am here"... works for business as well as private vacation stuff.
Is this what the 400$ camera wants to compete with? An app?

Uluru · 09-05-2013, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Aristophanes

Yes they do.

Sony's had awful problems getting some lenses in sock and their RX-1 EVF was (maybe still is) very difficult to come by and severely back-ordered.

Small volume, high-price items like the GR in little niches are always going to run short on inventory. There are very few customers for $700 compact cameras.

Considering the sheer number of consumer related products, I suspect it is possible for Sony to under-deliver for some. There's a matter of demand too; when I was enquiring about the RX-1 in weeks after the announcement, it was already pre-sold in Australia.
I think they did that to keep the price steady, the perception of an exclusive product and high demand.

09-05-2013, 05:23 PM	#108
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by RobA_Oz I don't want to get into an argument about words, but none of that shows they are worthy of your word "dilettante", even if any of it is demonstrably true. I don't question your first or your last two points, by the way, but they only show the differences in culture between the two companies. However, I think the GR, whatever real or imagined problems there may have been with getting it to market, is a real photographer's camera, and indicates to me that the company is serious about cameras. The re-bodying and re-pricing of the K30 as the K-50 and K-500 shows they are aware of the price sensitivity at that end of the DSLR market. The incremental work on the Limited DA lenses indicates a commitment to improvement, too. So, I repeat: "dilettante" is not an appropriate criticism to throw at Ricoh for their management of the Pentax brand. As for Sony, they may be exciting, but making a profit doesn't seem to be within the remit of their consumer products division, so what word would you use to describe that? Their new Theta camera is absolutely simple and beautiful. It was clearly inspired by iDevices by Apple, and it doesn't matter because iDevices are the measure of a good standard today. So I welcome their efforts in understanding of the consumer market, and willing to take into it. However, in corporate talks and reports, they refer to Pentax acquisition as a "traditional camera business, that has cost us ...". They talk cost, not opportunities. Their CEO talks about "they have shown me some numbers ..." when talking about Q. I wonder if he has even seen one in real life, took some care about its development? But he is all over the moon and personally present in showrooms when talking about multi-million $ document machines for some business partners. Do you see the difference? To succeed in the consumer market, what they do with Pentax must change. They can't wait 2 years till the acquisition settles to start thinking "what to do now re Pentax brand consumers?". That is so wrong! That also shows they have had other plans for Pentax too, to help in their optics, security and in other b2b purposes. They needed to start doing something right after the acquisition, and a saying "good things are coming" has no place in consumer market – it's a deadly sin! That could be said in confidence to b2b partners, but absolutely not to consumers! No wonder consumers are damn frustrated. I hope you understand why I call them amateurs. I don't bash the new product, but their attitude in many matters is so damn wrong. Last edited by Uluru; 09-05-2013 at 05:28 PM.

09-05-2013, 06:46 PM	#111
OrangeKx Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Vancouver, WA Photos: Gallery Posts: 817	Ricoh Theta: the product name does nothing for me, and $400... are u kidding? Maybe for $125, maybe. This product is done before it starts. (Ricoh wants to delay the pain of learning the cost, I clicked like crazy on the Theta page and never linked to a price. I had to go to a news page to learn the price. $400!!! Jeez.) On a more positive note, they got the design right. It smacks of the white ipod shuffle that was out a couple of generations ago. It looks very good and the buttons are smartly done. Using the phone to trip the shutter is cool, and the tripod socket is good (and required!!). Last edited by OrangeKx; 09-05-2013 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Added text.

09-05-2013, 06:51 PM	#112
Painter Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 348	I wish I wish they had developed a trail view type backend so people could upload a stream of images that would give a 'Google Street view' type experience instead of just single images. Then you could have an open community of people uploading hikes and walks where a car doesn't go. You could also make some great exercise equipment virtual reality where the person can look around a bit as they walk that would need video though. Hey Google buy me one of these and I will walk around with it on my head. Last edited by Painter; 09-05-2013 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Extra word, grammar error

09-05-2013, 07:05 PM	#116
Painter Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 348	Google already has this but it looks like this

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09-05-2013, 04:56 PM	#106
pghwarrior23 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Photos: Albums Posts: 331	I can't seem to shake the feeling though that those in Asian might be the ones to go bonkers over this thing, create some insane images with it, and leave a few months from now we will all be tempted to buy one in the US. Ok...probably not.

09-05-2013, 05:10 PM	#107
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,195	Originally posted by Uluru So far they have shown no capacity to excite. Remember the lens sales fiasco? The GR launch and distribution problems. Such things don't happen to Sony. Ricoh's CEO is excited about the new line of business document machines. Sony's CEO personally ignited the RX1 project and is supervising it. Answers users emails himself, shows he cares. Ricoh is not a consumer brand, that shows, their HQ are two walls behind the consumer. I don't want to get into an argument about words, but none of that shows they are worthy of your word "dilettante", even if any of it is demonstrably true. I don't question your first or your last two points, by the way, but they only show the differences in culture between the two companies. However, I think the GR, whatever real or imagined problems there may have been with getting it to market, is a real photographer's camera, and indicates to me that the company is serious about cameras. The re-bodying and re-pricing of the K30 as the K-50 and K-500 shows they are aware of the price sensitivity at that end of the DSLR market. The incremental work on the Limited DA lenses indicates a commitment to improvement, too. So, I repeat: "dilettante" is not an appropriate criticism to throw at Ricoh for their management of the Pentax brand. As for Sony, they may be exciting, but making a profit doesn't seem to be within the remit of their consumer products division, so what word would you use to describe that?

09-05-2013, 06:41 PM - 1 Like	#109
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	I don't think Ricoh had a plan with Pentax. They saw it as an asset with some diverse options to tap to enhance their other lines of business, especially their existing camera business. I think Ricoh largely depended on the existing Pentax brain trust for direction.

09-05-2013, 06:43 PM	#110
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by Uluru The GR launch and distribution problems. Such things don't happen to Sony. Yes they do. Sony's had awful problems getting some lenses in sock and their RX-1 EVF was (maybe still is) very difficult to come by and severely back-ordered. Small volume, high-price items like the GR in little niches are always going to run short on inventory. There are very few customers for $700 compact cameras.

09-05-2013, 06:54 PM	#113
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	At ~ $100 it's a stocking stuffer and would be hard to keep in stock at Photojojo. You'd see them popping up in Times Square, Piccadilly Circus, Tianenmen Square, the Eiffel Tower, Mount Fuji, the Vatican, and the Kremlin. They'd have their own Flickr forum. People would overlook the iffy IQ. At $399 it's laughed at right away by every comment from Engadget to this forum to DPR.

09-05-2013, 06:57 PM	#114
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,548	Had a look at the theta website and when I finally managed to find photos taken with the camera, I was a bit surprised, to say the least. Surprised in a bad way. I expected to be able to see 360 degree detail of the room. But it's hard to make out any detail at all.

09-05-2013, 07:00 PM	#115
ofer4 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Utah Posts: 428	This one definitely looks underwhelming so far, but imagine if Ricoh could somehow strike a deal with Google. They've been trying to get panoramic images from hikers, etc., for awhile now. Consumer-grade items like this would be awfully attractive to them. If Ricoh could land some sort of partnership with Google, cha-ching!

09-05-2013, 07:37 PM	#117
ak_kiwi Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Auckland, New Zealand. Posts: 328	Link on DPR that shows a picture one can play with. I can sorta see the attraction for the fb crowd. (Well my 11 year old daughter thinks it's cool)

09-05-2013, 08:30 PM	#118
ofer4 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Utah Posts: 428	Originally posted by Painter Google already has this but it looks like this Exactly. I had seen these contraptions. Suffice it to say that I'm not volunteering any time soon.

09-05-2013, 09:40 PM	#119
wullemaha Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Tokyo Posts: 503	I do not really see why anybody would want to buy a camera HW product to create pictures like this. I myself am not a smartphone user, but a colleague of mine has been using stuff like this 360 Panorama - Realtime panorama creation from Occipital for months if he wanted to show somebody "look, I am here"... works for business as well as private vacation stuff. Is this what the 400$ camera wants to compete with? An app?

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09-05-2013, 09:51 PM	#120
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Aristophanes Yes they do. Sony's had awful problems getting some lenses in sock and their RX-1 EVF was (maybe still is) very difficult to come by and severely back-ordered. Small volume, high-price items like the GR in little niches are always going to run short on inventory. There are very few customers for $700 compact cameras. Considering the sheer number of consumer related products, I suspect it is possible for Sony to under-deliver for some. There's a matter of demand too; when I was enquiring about the RX-1 in weeks after the announcement, it was already pre-sold in Australia. I think they did that to keep the price steady, the perception of an exclusive product and high demand.