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09-28-2013, 12:12 PM - 1 Like   #136
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I like that they won't try to compete on price; I want high quality Pentax products, which can't be made without money. The "cheap" strategy was tried before, it didn't work - only damaging the brand, without gaining market share. Now Ricoh wants to move upwards, that's good.
As for those who only want a cheaper Canikon, well, search for it elsewhere.

09-28-2013, 12:15 PM   #137
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If this is positioned to be a D600 killer, I wouldn't expect a price over $1300.
09-28-2013, 12:43 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If this is positioned to be a D600 killer, I wouldn't expect a price over $1300.
K-3 has nothing to do with the 24x36 D600, it's an APS-C camera.
09-28-2013, 01:11 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I like that they won't try to compete on price; I want high quality Pentax products, which can't be made without money. The "cheap" strategy was tried before, it didn't work - only damaging the brand, without gaining market share. Now Ricoh wants to move upwards, that's good.
As for those who only want a cheaper Canikon, well, search for it elsewhere.
I don't want "low-quality" products, and they have not been making low-quality products. Nor has any perceived failure been due to either their "not high-quality" or value pricing (on bodies), but instead Hoya's utter disinterest in the brand and now Ricoh's insane lens pricing strategies. Don't see how arbitrarily having crazy high prices is going to help market share.

But previously value has certainly one of their advantages, and if they give it up, then as a second-tier brand (rightly or wrongly) they better put out a camera FAR ahead of the competition on all other measures. (Which of course is still competing on price -- having a much better camera for the same money.) But to make something more-or-less equivalent at the same price point as those equivalents from the competition, and then there are compelling reasons to buy a Canikon. Using a product from one of the market leaders where your system is highly supported at all times and in all places by not only the manufacturer by all third-parties in the photo business is a real advantage (and so you can get a wide-variety of good lenses cheaper than Pentax), and "being a market leader" is an advantage that Pentax cannot simply choose to have like weather-sealing. But they can choose to price aggressively, and would be smart to do so. If they lose me because of price hikes, will they gain two others to take my place? That's a big if...

09-28-2013, 01:33 PM   #140
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Competing on price, and high quality are mutually exclusive. You can ask for a "much better camera, FAR ahead of the competition on all other measures for the same money" but the reality is no one will do that for you.
A brute force approach is the worst thing to attempt while you're a minor player; it's a certain failure, it's suicide. What should be done is to play smart, find the USPs which allows you to compete and close the gap. And Pentax can play smart, add an owner willing to invest money and...
09-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I like that they won't try to compete on price; I want high quality Pentax products, which can't be made without money. The "cheap" strategy was tried before, it didn't work - only damaging the brand, without gaining market share. Now Ricoh wants to move upwards, that's good.
As for those who only want a cheaper Canikon, well, search for it elsewhere.
Yes! If someone is concerned about price, they should buy an entry-level or mid-range model. The top of the range model should be for people who want the best Ricoh/Pentax can offer whatever the price.
09-28-2013, 02:09 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
surely, you jest, sir. every single release since at least the k100d or so has been a "wow" moment, has made people talk, etc. every time it has been some major improvement (unlike most of the other manufacturers..): k10d, weather sealing and pro build quality and ergonomics in an enthusiast body (the nikon d80 designer cried), k20d (slight tweaks to the acclaimed k10d body, brand new, at the time class leading sensor), k-7: a new body to die for, sensor from k20d (still good though not the best), video by popular demand, k-5 (no introduction here, just "wow"), k5ii(s) was the only apparent exception, though people who actually shoot them say the af improvement is _major_ (btw, af improvements have been made all along this little history, with each and every single model, no exceptions afaik). What are we expecting here, a camera that's credit card sized, takes all the lenses ever sold by anybody, doesn't need recharging, has a mind control interface and doesn't even need to be taken out to take the shot? (you'll have to be patient in that case, i hear they're working on it)
I didn't intend to give the impression that the cameras were not very good, just that after the hype, there was no way that the camera could live up to the expectations of the forum members. Sometimes we tend to get caught up in the excitement and expect all of of the rumours to be in fact true, when reality shows they are not.
09-28-2013, 02:40 PM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobell69 Quote
I didn't intend to give the impression that the cameras were not very good, just that after the hype, there was no way that the camera could live up to the expectations of the forum members. Sometimes we tend to get caught up in the excitement and expect all of of the rumours to be in fact true, when reality shows they are not.
okay, i guess that's true enough, though according to my recollections (which go back to around k20d or so, i erased stuff before that :P ), the reaction has generally been very postive on release, every time, and in at least one way most people were surprised how good "it" really was. having said that, there is, by definition, no way for any manufacturer, without access to start-trek level technology and unlimited resources, to meet all the expectations and rumors the pentax comunity can come up with before a release

09-28-2013, 08:55 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
K-3 has nothing to do with the 24x36 D600, it's an APS-C camera.
They are both cameras, same MP count and image size.... the majority of the pictures taken with both systems from the same spot will look almost exactly the same. "Nothing to do with?" .... whatever you say then.

The point I was making was, if you were thinking of upgrading to a D600 for resolution or MP, there would be no need to do that.
09-28-2013, 11:51 PM   #145
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i made the decision to stick with the K5 and bypass the II/S until the next version was available. the rumoured k3 specs sound good, but it will probably be the AF reports that will decide whether I go for the 3 or grab an outgoing K5IIs. I'm quite content with the IQ from the K5. tbh, i was holding off hoping for FF and an improved AF system as the two criteria.
09-29-2013, 12:05 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
K-3 has nothing to do with the 24x36 D600, it's an APS-C camera.
Just like the K-5 has nothing to do with the:

-5DII/III
-D800
-D4

Which are all cameras I've seen it compared to. Not to mention, there's someone on youtube that compared a Pentax system with the LTD lenses favorably to Leica's M system.

The comparison to the 5D series revealed how much better the K-5 is in shadow recovery without banding and dynamic range.

The comparison to the D800 often goes the path of the pixel density being similar.

The comparison to the D4 goes often the route of image quality.

So when it suits some arguments, it's apparently ok to compare the K-5 to FF cams, but not in some others. When and where is tough to answer.

D800 compared to the 645


Outside of the Pentax realm:

Fuji's x100/X100s compared to the Leica M.

Sony's FF R1X compared to the APS x100.

Various X-series compared to the Leica M and R1x.

u4/3 compared to APSc.

Sony's NEX compared to Leica M.
09-29-2013, 12:05 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by saladin Quote
i made the decision to stick with the K5 and bypass the II/S until the next version was available.
That was my initial plan as well but then the K-3 was delayed (quite a while ago) and I decided I did not want to wait anymore to upgrade from my K100D.

QuoteOriginally posted by saladin Quote
...the rumoured k3 specs sound good, but it will probably be the AF reports that will decide whether I go for the 3 or grab an outgoing K5IIs.
FWIW, there is nothing to moan about the K-5 II AF, AFAIC.
Quick and dead accurate in any situation.

The K-3 will most likely be better in terms of AF area size. Smaller areas would be nice, but the K-5 II areas work for me.

Another area in which we may see improvement is tracking speed for AF-C. Not a big priority for me, so I won't be unhappy with my decision, even if the K-3 will excel in that aspect.

BTW, the K-3 will definitely not be FF.
09-29-2013, 12:39 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I like the sound of the hypothetical specifications of the K-3. I'll take them gladly, but please.... can I remove the SD card without breaking my fingernails in the process. That really is the thing that annoys me most about the K-5!
I remember this used to be a common complaint, but when I got my K-5ii I did not understand what people were complaining about. No problem whatsoever with the card. So it may have been fixed at some stage, perhaps with the K-5ii, or perhaps even before. Anyone out there with a K-5ii who has this problem?

I suppose there may be lots of improvements made behind the scene. I for one eagerly await reports about the new HD lenses, which may have received more attention than just the coating (not meant to belittle the coating). And how about the SDM? etc. (PS: I have three SDM lenses, two working perfectly, while my favourite, 50-135, has a problem, but not worse than it was fixed when mounted on an older body with only screwdrive).

Last edited by Tesfaye; 09-29-2013 at 12:53 AM.
09-29-2013, 01:31 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesfaye Quote
I remember this used to be a common complaint, but when I got my K-5ii I did not understand what people were complaining about. No problem whatsoever with the card. So it may have been fixed at some stage, perhaps with the K-5ii, or perhaps even before. Anyone out there with a K-5ii who has this problem?

I suppose there may be lots of improvements made behind the scene. I for one eagerly await reports about the new HD lenses, which may have received more attention than just the coating (not meant to belittle the coating). And how about the SDM? etc. (PS: I have three SDM lenses, two working perfectly, while my favourite, 50-135, has a problem, but not worse than it was fixed when mounted on an older body with only screwdrive).
It works perfectly all the time with my K5.
09-29-2013, 01:49 AM - 1 Like   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
surely, you jest, sir. every single release since at least the k100d or so has been a "wow" moment, has made people talk, etc. every time it has been some major improvement (unlike most of the other manufacturers..): k10d, weather sealing and pro build quality and ergonomics in an enthusiast body (the nikon d80 designer cried), k20d (slight tweaks to the acclaimed k10d body, brand new, at the time class leading sensor), k-7: a new body to die for, sensor from k20d (still good though not the best), video by popular demand, k-5 (no introduction here, just "wow"), k5ii(s) was the only apparent exception, though people who actually shoot them say the af improvement is _major_ (btw, af improvements have been made all along this little history, with each and every single model, no exceptions afaik). What are we expecting here, a camera that's credit card sized, takes all the lenses ever sold by anybody, doesn't need recharging, has a mind control interface and doesn't even need to be taken out to take the shot? (you'll have to be patient in that case, i hear they're working on it)
What are you smoking? It certainly has a blissful effect.
I do think comments were a bit more varied. I basically agree with what you say about the serious reaction, but I have always been surprised by the amount of whining (as distinct from criticism). This is not specific to Pentax or this forum. I also remember that when the Nikon D800 came out, some over at DPR were complaining that they did not need 36 MP etc. - and this for a gamechanging camera with a very reasonable price.
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