Promises, promises K3 24mp New tracking AF

mamethot · 10-01-2013, 12:41 PM

Home Ec. class... They were called Family economy classes up here ;-)

And I now remember that too. Great

WaveDancer · 10-01-2013, 01:05 PM

I started 44 years ago with Pentax, then switched to Olympus and later Nikon. Now using an older Pentax (not professionally). Since I start my next professional career in 2014 as a professional foto-/videographer I'd love to get back to Pentax. 2014 should be the be perfect timing to buy the new FF Pentax, hopefully with some nice new lenses as well. The bucks are ready.... the Pentax-guys should act now - otherwise lots of professionals will switch to Nikon, Canon and Sony!
How ever we know, good thing always takes some time.... but please not to long!

tuco · 10-01-2013, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

Isn't the key to use units that most people can understand. I really have no idea how much a Newton is, while I do have a pretty good feel for how much a kilogram is, on earth anyway. Not having been to any of the other planets in our solar system, I guess I don't have a feel for it's weight there.

Sure, let's not confuse the general public. Kilograms-force is not part of the SI system (modern metric) but widely used and abbreviated as just kilograms (meaning the weight of that much mass). Consider the following approximate formula for calculating the weight of a given mass (kilograms) at sea level in the modern SI system:

W = (mass) * (9.81)

You can see weight and mass differ roughly by an order of magnitude. Confused? That is the problem with using the same unit (kilograms) to represent both mass and weight.

cbope · 10-01-2013, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Caat

Those weights are off. According to Nikon the D600 weights 850g with batteries and card.

Also the volume differences are actually quite large:

K-5 - 927,611 mm3
6D - 1,136,868 mm3
D600 - 1,306,506 mm3

Making the K5 82% the size of the 6D and only 71% the size of the D600. For you these differences may be fine, as you say, but for me it means less space in my bag and in some cases would mean I'd need a bigger bag just for the camera and one, attached, lens.

This really starts to go off-topic... so anyway...

I've had a K-5 for a couple years now and I got to use a D600 for two weeks this past summer. It is a MONSTER camera compared to the K-5. Even though it's not in D4 or 1Dx land, it's still a big and heavy body. I was not comfortable using it, it's just too big and heavy for my liking. And to be honest, I wasn't exactly blown away by the image quality. It is good, no doubt, and probably has at least a one stop advantage in low light noise compared to the K-5, but I just didn't feel the increase in weight and size justified the small-ish increases in performance. I also found myself fighting with the controls too much, I never found a rhythm with that camera.

tuco · 10-01-2013, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by cbope

This really starts to go off-topic... so anyway...

I've had a K-5 for a couple years now and I got to use a D600 for two weeks this past summer. It is a MONSTER camera compared to the K-5. Even though it's not in D4 or 1Dx land, it's still a big and heavy body. I was not comfortable using it, it's just too big and heavy for my liking. And to be honest, I wasn't exactly blown away by the image quality. It is good, no doubt, and probably has at least a one stop advantage in low light noise compared to the K-5, but I just didn't feel the increase in weight and size justified the small-ish increases in performance. I also found myself fighting with the controls too much, I never found a rhythm with that camera.

I don't get it. If a person is obsessed over the size/weight difference of a D600 compared to K-5, why in the heck don't they have a mirrrorless instead? Way smaller and lighter. Apparently, 0.2 kg-force difference is the straw that breaks the camel's back?

Kunzite · 10-01-2013, 01:37 PM

Possible reasons:
- the K-5 is small and light enough
- there's such thing as a too small camera (they have to fit our hands, after all)
- a mirrorless is not a SLR

tuco · 10-01-2013, 02:14 PM

Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all...

Kunzite · 10-01-2013, 02:26 PM

Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say?
Compare camera dimensions side by side

tuco · 10-01-2013, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say?
Compare camera dimensions side by side

Ha, I've seen that one in a store before. Built in vertical grips are huge. But on the other hand, put on a large zoom and shoot in portrait orientation and you might just appreciate the extra size.

dankoBanana · 10-01-2013, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all...

things start to swing a bit more to the K5's side once you include the limited primes in the comparison. you can go anywhere with the DA 15, 40 & 70. I do not like mirrorless and pentax gives me the most compact quality option on the market.

Kunzite · 10-01-2013, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Ha, I've seen that one in a store before. Built in vertical grips are huge. But on the other hand, put on a large zoom and shoot in portrait orientation and you might just appreciate the extra size.

It would have to be a really large zoom... but of course, one size (be it small, medium or large) won't fit all.

**Rondec** · 10-01-2013, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all...

I am glad that there are different cameras available in a variety of sizes. Mirrorless feels to small. Something between a K5 and K10 about right -- K5 is a little small actually and I generally shoot mine with grip attached.

jogiba · 10-01-2013, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say?
Compare camera dimensions side by side

Compare camera dimensions side by side

rawr · 10-01-2013, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

Compare camera dimensions side by side

A more apt comparison:
Compare camera dimensions side by side

cfraz · 10-01-2013, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by tuco

Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all...

Of course one person uses a different set of criteria than another person for deciding which camera they like the best. Because people are like that. If we weren't like that, we would all drive Camrys (shudder) and eat Big Macs (shudder).

While the linear dimension differences between a K-5 and a D600 are not huge, the D600 is about 40% larger in volume than the K-5. You don't carry just the length, depth, or height of your camera on a hike, all 3 dimensions have to fit in your backpack. The 40% difference is significant. Consider also that for typical K-5 / D600 lenses, the camera/lens volume difference is even larger.

Would the difference be enough to diswade me from using a D600 over a K-5? I don't know; I don't have either one, But I'm willing to do the test if anyone wants to donate.

10-01-2013, 01:05 PM	#257
WaveDancer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 45	FF Pentax I started 44 years ago with Pentax, then switched to Olympus and later Nikon. Now using an older Pentax (not professionally). Since I start my next professional career in 2014 as a professional foto-/videographer I'd love to get back to Pentax. 2014 should be the be perfect timing to buy the new FF Pentax, hopefully with some nice new lenses as well. The bucks are ready.... the Pentax-guys should act now - otherwise lots of professionals will switch to Nikon, Canon and Sony! How ever we know, good thing always takes some time.... but please not to long!

10-01-2013, 01:09 PM	#258
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,030	Originally posted by Rondec Isn't the key to use units that most people can understand. I really have no idea how much a Newton is, while I do have a pretty good feel for how much a kilogram is, on earth anyway. Not having been to any of the other planets in our solar system, I guess I don't have a feel for it's weight there. Sure, let's not confuse the general public. Kilograms-force is not part of the SI system (modern metric) but widely used and abbreviated as just kilograms (meaning the weight of that much mass). Consider the following approximate formula for calculating the weight of a given mass (kilograms) at sea level in the modern SI system: W = (mass) * (9.81) You can see weight and mass differ roughly by an order of magnitude. Confused? That is the problem with using the same unit (kilograms) to represent both mass and weight.

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10-01-2013, 12:41 PM	#256
mamethot Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Greater Montreal Area Posts: 736	Home Ec. class... They were called Family economy classes up here ;-) And I now remember that too. Great

10-01-2013, 01:12 PM	#259
cbope Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Helsinki Posts: 664	Originally posted by Caat Those weights are off. According to Nikon the D600 weights 850g with batteries and card. Also the volume differences are actually quite large: K-5 - 927,611 mm3 6D - 1,136,868 mm3 D600 - 1,306,506 mm3 Making the K5 82% the size of the 6D and only 71% the size of the D600. For you these differences may be fine, as you say, but for me it means less space in my bag and in some cases would mean I'd need a bigger bag just for the camera and one, attached, lens. This really starts to go off-topic... so anyway... I've had a K-5 for a couple years now and I got to use a D600 for two weeks this past summer. It is a MONSTER camera compared to the K-5. Even though it's not in D4 or 1Dx land, it's still a big and heavy body. I was not comfortable using it, it's just too big and heavy for my liking. And to be honest, I wasn't exactly blown away by the image quality. It is good, no doubt, and probably has at least a one stop advantage in low light noise compared to the K-5, but I just didn't feel the increase in weight and size justified the small-ish increases in performance. I also found myself fighting with the controls too much, I never found a rhythm with that camera.

10-01-2013, 01:34 PM	#260
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,030	Originally posted by cbope This really starts to go off-topic... so anyway... I've had a K-5 for a couple years now and I got to use a D600 for two weeks this past summer. It is a MONSTER camera compared to the K-5. Even though it's not in D4 or 1Dx land, it's still a big and heavy body. I was not comfortable using it, it's just too big and heavy for my liking. And to be honest, I wasn't exactly blown away by the image quality. It is good, no doubt, and probably has at least a one stop advantage in low light noise compared to the K-5, but I just didn't feel the increase in weight and size justified the small-ish increases in performance. I also found myself fighting with the controls too much, I never found a rhythm with that camera. I don't get it. If a person is obsessed over the size/weight difference of a D600 compared to K-5, why in the heck don't they have a mirrrorless instead? Way smaller and lighter. Apparently, 0.2 kg-force difference is the straw that breaks the camel's back?

10-01-2013, 01:37 PM	#261
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Possible reasons: - the K-5 is small and light enough - there's such thing as a too small camera (they have to fit our hands, after all) - a mirrorless is not a SLR

10-01-2013, 02:14 PM	#262
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,030	Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all...

10-01-2013, 02:26 PM	#263
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say? Compare camera dimensions side by side

10-01-2013, 02:29 PM	#264
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,030	Originally posted by Kunzite Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say? Compare camera dimensions side by side Ha, I've seen that one in a store before. Built in vertical grips are huge. But on the other hand, put on a large zoom and shoot in portrait orientation and you might just appreciate the extra size.

10-01-2013, 02:37 PM	#265
dankoBanana Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 533	Originally posted by tuco Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all... things start to swing a bit more to the K5's side once you include the limited primes in the comparison. you can go anywhere with the DA 15, 40 & 70. I do not like mirrorless and pentax gives me the most compact quality option on the market.

10-01-2013, 02:38 PM	#266
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by tuco Ha, I've seen that one in a store before. Built in vertical grips are huge. But on the other hand, put on a large zoom and shoot in portrait orientation and you might just appreciate the extra size. It would have to be a really large zoom... but of course, one size (be it small, medium or large) won't fit all.

10-01-2013, 02:47 PM	#267
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by tuco Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all... I am glad that there are different cameras available in a variety of sizes. Mirrorless feels to small. Something between a K5 and K10 about right -- K5 is a little small actually and I generally shoot mine with grip attached.

10-01-2013, 04:27 PM	#268
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Originally posted by Kunzite Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say? Compare camera dimensions side by side Compare camera dimensions side by side

10-01-2013, 04:45 PM	#269
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Originally posted by jogiba Compare camera dimensions side by side A more apt comparison: Compare camera dimensions side by side

10-01-2013, 05:43 PM	#270
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by tuco Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all... Of course one person uses a different set of criteria than another person for deciding which camera they like the best. Because people are like that. If we weren't like that, we would all drive Camrys (shudder) and eat Big Macs (shudder). While the linear dimension differences between a K-5 and a D600 are not huge, the D600 is about 40% larger in volume than the K-5. You don't carry just the length, depth, or height of your camera on a hike, all 3 dimensions have to fit in your backpack. The 40% difference is significant. Consider also that for typical K-5 / D600 lenses, the camera/lens volume difference is even larger. Would the difference be enough to diswade me from using a D600 over a K-5? I don't know; I don't have either one, But I'm willing to do the test if anyone wants to donate.