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10-01-2013, 12:28 PM - 1 Like   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Yes and when someone uses, say, kilograms in the context of weight, the inference is kilograms-force. Just look at the units. It says it all.

Mass is one of the 7 fundamental units. All other units (watt, joule, newton, etc) are derived from those fundamental units. Weight (a force) has the following fundamental units in the SI system:

(mass)*(meter)/(second)^2

Those are the units of force and weight plain and simple.
QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
Now you got me. Layman me cook uses the same tool to measure liquids and solids/dry.
I'm heading over to the Bed Bath and Beyond store right now to blame them for the fact that my brownies never turn out right becuase they are selling me dry measuring cups rather than liquid measuring cups.

10-01-2013, 12:38 PM   #257
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I remember learning in Home Ec. class that the two were exactly the same volume-wise, but the dry measuring cups were exact measurements with flat tops so you could pack in dry/thick ingredients, then use a knife to scrape the top off, leaving the proper amount with no voids. The liquid measuring cups were clear and you filled up to the line on the side, since with liquids you generally wouldn't have to pack the ingredients.

QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
Now you got me. Layman me cook uses the same tool to measure liquids and solids/dry.
10-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #258
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Home Ec. class... They were called Family economy classes up here ;-)

And I now remember that too. Great
10-01-2013, 01:05 PM   #259
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FF Pentax

I started 44 years ago with Pentax, then switched to Olympus and later Nikon. Now using an older Pentax (not professionally). Since I start my next professional career in 2014 as a professional foto-/videographer I'd love to get back to Pentax. 2014 should be the be perfect timing to buy the new FF Pentax, hopefully with some nice new lenses as well. The bucks are ready.... the Pentax-guys should act now - otherwise lots of professionals will switch to Nikon, Canon and Sony!
How ever we know, good thing always takes some time.... but please not to long!

10-01-2013, 01:09 PM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Isn't the key to use units that most people can understand. I really have no idea how much a Newton is, while I do have a pretty good feel for how much a kilogram is, on earth anyway. Not having been to any of the other planets in our solar system, I guess I don't have a feel for it's weight there.
Sure, let's not confuse the general public. Kilograms-force is not part of the SI system (modern metric) but widely used and abbreviated as just kilograms (meaning the weight of that much mass). Consider the following approximate formula for calculating the weight of a given mass (kilograms) at sea level in the modern SI system:
W = (mass) * (9.81)
You can see weight and mass differ roughly by an order of magnitude. Confused? That is the problem with using the same unit (kilograms) to represent both mass and weight.
10-01-2013, 01:12 PM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Those weights are off. According to Nikon the D600 weights 850g with batteries and card.

Also the volume differences are actually quite large:

K-5 - 927,611 mm3
6D - 1,136,868 mm3
D600 - 1,306,506 mm3

Making the K5 82% the size of the 6D and only 71% the size of the D600. For you these differences may be fine, as you say, but for me it means less space in my bag and in some cases would mean I'd need a bigger bag just for the camera and one, attached, lens.
This really starts to go off-topic... so anyway...

I've had a K-5 for a couple years now and I got to use a D600 for two weeks this past summer. It is a MONSTER camera compared to the K-5. Even though it's not in D4 or 1Dx land, it's still a big and heavy body. I was not comfortable using it, it's just too big and heavy for my liking. And to be honest, I wasn't exactly blown away by the image quality. It is good, no doubt, and probably has at least a one stop advantage in low light noise compared to the K-5, but I just didn't feel the increase in weight and size justified the small-ish increases in performance. I also found myself fighting with the controls too much, I never found a rhythm with that camera.
10-01-2013, 01:34 PM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbope Quote
This really starts to go off-topic... so anyway...

I've had a K-5 for a couple years now and I got to use a D600 for two weeks this past summer. It is a MONSTER camera compared to the K-5. Even though it's not in D4 or 1Dx land, it's still a big and heavy body. I was not comfortable using it, it's just too big and heavy for my liking. And to be honest, I wasn't exactly blown away by the image quality. It is good, no doubt, and probably has at least a one stop advantage in low light noise compared to the K-5, but I just didn't feel the increase in weight and size justified the small-ish increases in performance. I also found myself fighting with the controls too much, I never found a rhythm with that camera.
I don't get it. If a person is obsessed over the size/weight difference of a D600 compared to K-5, why in the heck don't they have a mirrrorless instead? Way smaller and lighter. Apparently, 0.2 kg-force difference is the straw that breaks the camel's back?
10-01-2013, 01:37 PM   #263
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Possible reasons:
- the K-5 is small and light enough
- there's such thing as a too small camera (they have to fit our hands, after all)
- a mirrorless is not a SLR

10-01-2013, 02:14 PM   #264
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Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all...
10-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #265
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Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say?
Compare camera dimensions side by side
10-01-2013, 02:29 PM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say?
Compare camera dimensions side by side
Ha, I've seen that one in a store before. Built in vertical grips are huge. But on the other hand, put on a large zoom and shoot in portrait orientation and you might just appreciate the extra size.
10-01-2013, 02:37 PM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all...
things start to swing a bit more to the K5's side once you include the limited primes in the comparison. you can go anywhere with the DA 15, 40 & 70. I do not like mirrorless and pentax gives me the most compact quality option on the market.
10-01-2013, 02:38 PM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Ha, I've seen that one in a store before. Built in vertical grips are huge. But on the other hand, put on a large zoom and shoot in portrait orientation and you might just appreciate the extra size.
It would have to be a really large zoom... but of course, one size (be it small, medium or large) won't fit all.
10-01-2013, 02:47 PM   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Well, you guys must be way more sensitive than me when it comes to size/weight. I put practically all DSLRs in one bucket. It doesn't matter to me if one is 10-20% larger/smaller in volume or weight than another. I place higher priority on camera responsiveness (eg no shutter lag) than to touchy-feely things. Different strokes, different folks and all...
I am glad that there are different cameras available in a variety of sizes. Mirrorless feels to small. Something between a K5 and K10 about right -- K5 is a little small actually and I generally shoot mine with grip attached.
10-01-2013, 04:27 PM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Practically all DSLRs in one bucket, you say?
Compare camera dimensions side by side
Compare camera dimensions side by side
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