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09-28-2013, 09:52 AM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
I did not realize that the D800 was that much bigger than the K-5. I've sometimes wondered if I the necessary funds, whether that D800, which is terrific landscape camera, would tempt me. But seeing the size of that thing compared to the K-5, I think not. Imagine if Pentax could make an FF DSLR not much bigger than the K-5. Surely that would awaken at least a few Canikon FF users from their dogmatic slumbers!
I completely agree. The D800 is a marvel, but it and its lenses are big, heavy and expensive. I use it for landscapes (when I'm not walking too far from the car) and portraits. But the K-5 is my favourite.

09-28-2013, 10:10 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
It's neither practically or financially feasible for me. It's not just the body (although that's a big expense in itself), it's the glass, it's the computing infrastructure, it's the cost of big prints (which would be the only justification I could have for FF, as the low noise and DOF control of FF would be largely useless for me). APS-C is the more economical choice. Things that are less expensive tend not to be "equivalent" to things that cost more, so any talk of "equivalence" misses the point. All that equivalence establishes is that DOF control at wide and normal focal lengths is expensive, regardless of the format. If you don't need that DOF control, there's no reason to pay the big bucks for it. And if you can't afford it in any case, there are work arounds for those who are bit more flexible-minded.



I did not realize that the D800 was that much bigger than the K-5. I've sometimes wondered if I the necessary funds, whether that D800, which is terrific landscape camera, would tempt me. But seeing the size of that thing compared to the K-5, I think not. Imagine if Pentax could make an FF DSLR not much bigger than the K-5. Surely that would awaken at least a few Canikon FF users from their dogmatic slumbers!
I saw it on a shelf at London Drugs, and the K5 looked small. It is a large beast. I'm non knocking it, anyone who has one is enamoured with it, but it is big. It does come down to what you shoot. For my style and subjects, aps-c is perfect; small and light, and long lenses work very well. If Pentax made a FF body the size or close to a K-5, in my price range, then I probably would get it. But I doubt if that will be the case. An extra $K for full frame gets me 1/5 of the way to the long lens that I drool over. That would work extremely well on an aps-c.
09-28-2013, 10:30 AM - 6 Likes   #303
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Having both formats (APS-C and FF), I don't understand people who try to make out that FF is somehow better in every respect. All cameras are a set of compromises, and APS-C has some positives over FF, particularly for macro and telephoto work. Personally, I don't see a move from APS-C to FF as an upgrade, but as a change of format, with its particular advantages and disadvantages.

Let's not forget that we have the so-called "FF" format because Oskar Barnack hit on the idea of using movie film to fashion a small camera with good enough IQ. And the 3:2 format he chose did not fit any standard photographic paper sizes (though these may have come later). I usually find myself cropping to 4:3 because I find it more aesthetically pleasing. If photography had started not with film, but with sensors, I wonder what size would be regarded as optimum? If bigger is always better, why aren't we all using 10 x 8s?

Having let off a little steam, I really do hope that Pentax makes a FF in the not-too-distant future because I think this is the way the market is heading!
09-28-2013, 11:41 AM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
Having let off a little steam, I really do hope that Pentax makes a FF in the not-too-distant future because I think this is the way the market is heading!
I really do hope they build one (and I believe they will next year) just to eliminate the number one source of whining on this forum. I'm sure something will replace it in short order, though.

Truthfully, though, I'll buy it even though I have no specific need for FF. Not to replace aps-c, but as a companion. I have unintentionally built a mostly FF-compatible lens collection, and having no experience with FF, I'd like to judge for myself what all the hubbub is about. If it turns out to be in the same body as the K-3, that would be awesome. I'm not curious enough about FF to make it worth hauling some beast of a camera around. I'm looking at you, D800. Though I would be willing to use a 645D for that kind of IQ, if my budget allowed.

I hope the fellow who says the K-3 will be a bit larger than the K-5 turns out to be right. I love the K-5 body, but a bit larger would make it "just right." I have small hands, too. A return to something like the size of the K-10 would be awesome.

Ultimately, I don't fret too much about the physical characteristics of the bodies. Larger, smaller, pretty, ugly, I really don't care. As long as there's nothing about the design that impedes my ability to use it (and it's ok if I have to make some mild adaptations), then it's cool with me.

09-28-2013, 11:43 AM   #305
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I remember PENTAX talked about something will be really innovative, couple of months ago. I wonder that. I don't know what can it be really innovative and not produced yet in dslr systems!? If it's possible I'm thinking a system about movable sensor system!? Why not? Can they make a system alternate to digital crop between APS-C and FF focal length in the same camera, switchable from 1x to 1.5x with same sensor?
09-28-2013, 11:53 AM   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogunturkay Quote
I remember PENTAX talked about something will be really innovative, couple of months ago. I wonder that. I don't know what can it be really innovative and not produced yet in dslr systems!? If it's possible I'm thinking a system about movable sensor system!? Why not? Can they make a system alternate to digital crop between APS-C and FF focal length in the same camera, switchable from 1x to 1.5x with same sensor?
I think that the Nikon FF's do that if you put a non FF lens on it.
09-28-2013, 11:55 AM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I think that the Nikon FF's do that if you put a non FF lens on it.
Nikon FF cameras have a crop mode.
09-28-2013, 11:55 AM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogunturkay Quote
Can they make a system alternate to digital crop between APS-C and FF focal length in the same camera, switchable from 1x to 1.5x with same sensor?
That already exists. Use a DX lens on an FX Nikon and it goes to crop mode. Plus I believe the crop factor can be chose in certain cases with legacies.

09-28-2013, 11:56 AM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I think that the Nikon FF's do that if you put a non FF lens on it.
I think it's a digital crop, isn't it; if result has got the same resolution!?
09-28-2013, 12:00 PM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogunturkay Quote
I think it's a digital crop, isn't it; if result has got the same resolution!?
It means also there is a interpolation method using in camera!? (If the result in same size.) If not it means also there is a digital crop.
09-28-2013, 12:06 PM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I think the Pentax engineers would be the first to give almost all credit to SONY that designed and produced the sensor.

The main difference between the K-7 and the K-5 is the SONY sensor. And what a difference it is.
Why do Sony cameras with [I would think] the same Sony sensor as a Pentax produce such horrible photos? I've seen great photos taken with Sony cameras because the photo was great, but not the IQ.. noise, lack of details, colours are 'meh'.. And mostly this I've seen in the reviews, but also in a friend's photos, so I am not seeing biased reviews only. Is it the optics? Is it the processor? Does the processor matter if we're talking about RAW data captured by the [same] sensor?
09-28-2013, 12:06 PM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogunturkay Quote
I remember PENTAX talked about something will be really innovative, couple of months ago. I wonder that. I don't know what can it be really innovative and not produced yet in dslr
Depends on the definition of "innovative". Posters on this forum see "innovative" and immediately come up with all manner of bizarre, far fetched, very creative, futuristic ideas. When Pentax says "innovative" it might mean changing the color of the lens rings, or moving a button from point A to point B. Or it could be innovation in manufacturing processes that engineers would drool over but average users would never even notice. Build on Demand in different colors is incredibly innovative. Very cutting edge in fact, yet no one seems to care because that does not interest this market.

Not trying to be negative, just let's keep expectations within bounds. When the "expectation" is so high then the reality is trashed even though the product is excellent. I'm looking forward to seeing what Pentax has in store for us, I'm not looking forward to seeing it trashed because it does not live up to everyone's imaginary, rumor based, expectations.

A good solid dslr with improvements over the k-5II and 20 or 24mp that can be sold at a competitive price is a win. Anything else is icing on the cake.
09-28-2013, 12:18 PM   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Depends on the definition of "innovative". Posters on this forum see "innovative" and immediately come up with all manner of bizarre, far fetched, very creative, futuristic ideas. When Pentax says "innovative" it might mean changing the color of the lens rings, or moving a button from point A to point B. Or it could be innovation in manufacturing processes that engineers would drool over but average users would never even notice. Build on Demand in different colors is incredibly innovative. Very cutting edge in fact, yet no one seems to care because that does not interest this market.
You were joking about "changing the color of the lens rings" (I hope)... I'd say AstroTracer, composition adjustment, the HD coating, a SLR-mount mirrorless, the Q and, of course, the color system; not all being relevant for everyone. There are also the "hidden" things, like the manufacturing processes you were talking about.
Those bizarre ideas that can't possibly work are just science fiction. I like watching a good sci-fi show, but I won't get mad about not having transporters and food replicators and free infinite energy...
09-28-2013, 01:02 PM   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You were joking about "changing the color of the lens rings" (I hope)...
Not entirely, if you talk to people in the graphic arts industry then "ohh that color is awesome, etc" is standard fair. They get excited about a tiny change in color, a change in typeface, moving a graphic element 3 tenths of an inch one way or another. Changing the ring color is "innovative" to folks who are into that stuff. Innovative to a process engineer might be shaving a few seconds off the manufacturing time. Innovative to an optical engineer might be a new coating or a new depositing method. I'm just trying to say that "innovative" can mean lots of different things to different people.

And I am quite mad that I don't have access to a transporter, and I'm going to stay mad about it until they finally release it.
09-28-2013, 01:33 PM   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I think that the Nikon FF's do that if you put a non FF lens on it.
On the D800 one can chose from a couple of crop modes: 1.2x and DX, as well as a 5:4 crop, even when a FF lens is attached. It automatically goes to DX mode if a DX lens is fitted.
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