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09-30-2013, 12:05 PM   #361
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
The grain is smaller but the amplitude of the noise goes up proportionately. So there is really no net gain in a test lab scenario, and very minor gain in printed photographs.
Actually the gain is very real and if the S/N ratio is the same then then noise does not go up. I shot with a Canon 5D for years and was looking at the A900 to switch over to Sony. The S/N curve of the two cameras is very similar, but when I tested both cameras on A3+ sized prints the A900 printed noticeably better images with finer "grain" to the noise at higher ISO.

If you can show me an example of the noise going up proportionately I would like to see it.

09-30-2013, 12:07 PM   #362
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Yes, 16MP is so 2010. I can't understand how anyone could live with technology that old.
You can buy NOKIA with 41MPX, good luck
09-30-2013, 01:39 PM   #363
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
The grain is smaller but the amplitude of the noise goes up proportionately.
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Actually the gain is very real and if the S/N ratio is the same then then noise does not go up
Has everyone forgotten about this article:
DxOMark - More pixels offset noise!

QuoteQuote:
"For equal, normalized SNR, a high-resolution camera is still better than a low-resolution camera."
09-30-2013, 01:40 PM   #364
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Has everyone forgotten about this [Stone Age, 2008] article:
DxOMark - More pixels offset noise!
Forgotten? Never read it, but this is what I was talking about:



09-30-2013, 02:13 PM   #365
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Has everyone forgotten about this article:
DxOMark - More pixels offset noise!
No. I was actually going to post the link to it.
09-30-2013, 02:21 PM   #366
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And more pixels reduce moiré, this is usefull with a AA filterless sensor
09-30-2013, 04:58 PM   #367
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That looks pretty real to me. There's some K-50 design traces in there, such as the AF lamp housing and the SR logo. I'd say we finally have a real K-3 photo. After all the many rumours, it looks like the next best Pentax is about to launch!
I like the way the design is conservatively and stylistically so close to the K-5. The 'bump' on the right of the photo must be for some round connector Wonder what it is?

The base looks near identical to K-5 and K-7 so with luck the D-BG4 battery grip is compatible. If this is not real, then someone has spent a considerable time in Photoshop.
09-30-2013, 07:21 PM   #368
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
And more pixels reduce moiré, this is usefull(sic) with a AA filterless sensor
No they don't, if you are using a lens that is fast enough you can still encounter it.

09-30-2013, 09:04 PM   #369
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
The 'bump' on the right of the photo must be for some round connector Wonder what it is?
Best guess: It's for the cable release. On the K-7/K-5 series, this connector is on the left side (when looking towards the lens) just below the memory card slot. If you think about it, this could mean dual SD card slots--moving this connector to the right side of the unit, along with the slightly increased height, produces sufficient space for two SD cards.

--DragonLord
09-30-2013, 09:09 PM   #370
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
No they don't, if you are using a lens that is fast enough you can still encounter it.
Are you saying there is an inverse relationship? IE more pixels reduce moire for a given lens speed, but changing the lens speed to a wider aperture increases the chance of moire for a given number of pixels?
09-30-2013, 10:33 PM   #371
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Forgotten? Never read it, but this is what I was talking about:
So why did you write "the amplitude of the noise goes up proportionately"?

The amplitude of the noise does not go up. The noise distribution becomes wider, i.e., is distributed over more spatial frequencies and hence looks better. The wider distribution even implies that the amplitude (maximum peak value) goes down, compared to the larger pixel image (the same power is distributed over a wider range).

I'm talking about image noise, not individual pixel noise. The latter obviously gets higher as the pixel size goes down, but that's irrelevant for the whole image.

Last edited by Class A; 09-30-2013 at 10:46 PM.
09-30-2013, 10:34 PM   #372
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
The 'bump' on the right of the photo must be for some round connector Wonder what it is?
Wasn't the K-3 rumoured to have a connector for ear phones?

Would be a reasonable place to put it there.
09-30-2013, 10:37 PM   #373
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
No they don't, if you are using a lens that is fast enough you can still encounter it.
Pardon?

Of course, higher pixel density reduces the chances of moiré occurring.

I'm assuming you wanted to write "sharp enough" rather than "fast enough" because lens speed is not relevant here. But even the sharpest lens has a resolution limit and if you make the pixels small enough, the lens acts as a sufficient low pass filter to avoid moiré completely.

Avoiding moiré completely is tough, but every increase in pixel density helps. That's why the 36MP D800E makes a lot more sense than the 16MP K-5 IIs.
09-30-2013, 11:42 PM   #374
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People on various forums, including DPR, are already polling for preorders on the K-3, as if it's fact.

I would love nothing more to see this turn out to be another work.
10-01-2013, 01:20 AM   #375
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QuoteOriginally posted by DragonLord Quote
Best guess: It's for the cable release. On the K-7/K-5 series, this connector is on the left side (when looking towards the lens) just below the memory card slot. If you think about it, this could mean dual SD card slots--moving this connector to the right side of the unit, along with the slightly increased height, produces sufficient space for two SD cards.

--DragonLord
2 cards would be a great change!
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