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10-06-2013, 07:16 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by txsbluesguy Quote
I m willing to guess before the end of the decade it will be hard to find mass produced consumer cameras with actuated mirrors and physical shutters
That's exactly the MILC propaganda's job, to convince us DSLRs aren't a good "investment" and, regardless of what we want/need, that we should go MILC because that's the future.
By spreading FUD, they're trying the self fulfilling prophecy approach. I'm glad it doesn't work, but it's noisy as ****.

10-06-2013, 07:18 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by txsbluesguy Quote
before the end of the decade it will be hard to find mass produced consumer cameras with actuated mirrors and physical shutters
It won't be hard to find them in my house - I have dozens in my collection!

But seriously, you have a good point, and only time will tell. I like the OVFs on my current cameras, but then, I've never tried a camera with a newer EVF, such as the OMD. As long as I have a good viewfinder, I'm not much bothered whether it's OVF or EVF. Whether EVFs are "there" yet, I'll leave to others. For the moment, I have a K-5, and I will be buying a K-3, and they have OVFs, so that's what I'll be using.

I might consider a mirror-less full-frame compact in the not-to-distant future, if they materialise, though, to supplement my DSLRs.
10-06-2013, 07:25 AM   #123
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But in both of the former cases, the new technology offered comparable or improved performance to the technology at reduced expense being replaced. EVFs have been around for 30+ years, starting in video, and while they have improved, they still haven't come close to offering an experience in terms of fidelity or latency that is comparable to an OVF.

I'm not saying its an impossible goal, but it's extremely difficult to squeeze that many high-quality pixels onto a tiny screen while maintaining color fidelity, dynamic range, and most of all, speed. I think where we will see EVFs continue to make inroads is where we've already seen them doing so - at the lower middle end of the market where performance isn't critical. This is just a continuation of the trend that started with P+S viewfinders being replaced with rear LCD screens. But I believe that the future at the high end, at least for the next several years, will continue to be OVF, although perhaps augmented with HUD style overlays (which, incidentally, Ricoh is rumored to be developing).

QuoteOriginally posted by txsbluesguy Quote
In the long run they will drop the mirror, like in audio and video they dropped tape, in photo they dropped film. The cost of making and maintaining factories to make complicated precession mechanical assemblies is becoming prohibitive. It's far easier to source an LCD panel for an evf already to day but the market will not currently accept it. But in the future there will be a tipping point or event that will force the change. When that will be is any ones guess but I m willing to guess before the end of the decade it will be hard to find mass produced consumer cameras with actuated mirrors and physical shutters
10-06-2013, 07:57 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy75 Quote
I feel Pentax is going to have a major challenge convincing new users to buy into their system versus mirrorless options.
Mrs. ElJamoquio tried micro 4/3rds a few years back. It was horrible, couldn't focus, red spots everywhere, P&S shots seemed better.

I'm sure they're better now - they have to be - but I still haven't seen a mirrorless focus very well.

10-06-2013, 08:22 AM - 1 Like   #125
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Silver is too flashy for wildlife photography... why not offering a camo one ?
10-06-2013, 08:36 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Weevil Quote
Silver is too flashy for wildlife photography... why not offering a camo one ?
That`s a very good thought, I`ve wondered about that too.
I would like some flectarn, digital camo or multicam for multipurpose enviroments
10-06-2013, 08:50 AM   #127
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Damn, looks like a new grip and not the D BG4. Look at the right side near the battery door, the D-BG4 is flat all the way across.

Camera looks good in black/silver and I'm looking forward to the reviews and hopefully a major improvement in AF performance.
10-06-2013, 08:51 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
That`s a very good thought, I`ve wondered about that too.
I would like some flectarn, digital camo or multicam for multipurpose enviroments
If they eventually offer color options a la the K-30/K-50, then Olive Green with Brown Grip might get you close to where you want to be:

Digital Cameras by RICOH IMAGING

10-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
If they eventually offer color options a la the K-30/K-50, then Olive Green with Brown Grip might get you close to where you want to be:

Digital Cameras by RICOH IMAGING
Interesting, thank you. While I`m usually an all-black kinda guy, that could be a usefull combo indeed.
And olive with black grip is also a usefull combo.

But I`m quite certain the new one will be black and silver only, different coloroptions have never been a feature of top-end bodies.
10-06-2013, 09:24 AM   #130
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Looking at my DBG-4 from the same angle..

yeah it's different. must be DBG-5 then.
10-06-2013, 09:31 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by txsbluesguy Quote
In the long run they will drop the mirror, like in audio and video they dropped tape, in photo they dropped film. The cost of making and maintaining factories to make complicated precession mechanical assemblies is becoming prohibitive. It's far easier to source an LCD panel for an evf already to day but the market will not currently accept it. But in the future there will be a tipping point or event that will force the change. When that will be is any ones guess but I m willing to guess before the end of the decade it will be hard to find mass produced consumer cameras with actuated mirrors and physical shutters
There isn't a completely good argument to drop the mirror other than "cheaper manufacturing." By the end of the decade, the vampire like fear of mirrors may have dissipated.
10-06-2013, 10:04 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
There isn't a completely good argument to drop the mirror other than "cheaper manufacturing." By the end of the decade, the vampire like fear of mirrors may have dissipated.
Indeed, and yet an EVF that is almost equal to an OVF comes in very expensive bodies. And Pentax releases a very inexpensive K500 with a very nice OVF for quite cheap.
10-06-2013, 10:50 AM   #133
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ovf/evf

Having recently been using a Nex 6, I am actually quite taken by the EVF.
It has diopter adjustment (so better than lcd only).
It shows the final image - i.e., as you adjust shooting parameters you see the results in the viewfinder, instead of trying to interpret a histogram of a jpg processed thumbnail of your raw image.
The ability to use magnification and focus peaking to confirm very precise focus is amazing, for macro or even portrait the accuracy is unparalleled and effortless.

The only bummer is that Sony's image processing is no where as perfected as Pentax. In my experience, the K5IIs has much much better high ISO performance than the Sony even though they both use Sony 16MP CMOS sensors. OTH, the other day I was using the K5 and I tweaked the manual focus ring and waited and waited and it took me about 30 seconds before I realized that there would be no magnification or peaking :-(

Disruption does not come from better products it comes from cheaper products that are just good enough and technology that improves rapidly (you know the book).

And I do think that the relentless push for profit in a shrinking market will force the big players to move to EVF's to protect their margins on all but the highest end products. Don't get me wrong OVF's like film are better but will ultimately become niche products.

P.S. Has anyone noticed how quiet Adam has been..? Probably playing with his preview K3...!!
10-06-2013, 10:54 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffP3456 Quote
P.S. Has anyone noticed how quiet Adam has been..? Probably playing with his preview K3...!!
Busy reviewing it you mean so we can get a review on announcement day
10-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
There isn't a completely good argument to drop the mirror other than "cheaper manufacturing." By the end of the decade, the vampire like fear of mirrors may have dissipated.
:

Of course; the whole argument "EVF is cheaper than mirrors and OVFs" attacks common sense because it's a blatant lie.

First is, most system mirrorless cameras are more expensive than DSLRs, and what is even worse, even a lower end DSLR kicks ass performance wise and image quality wise even even to hi-end mirrorless systems.

Say, a K50 on one side, and X-Pro1 on the other. I'm not sure why they call it Pro anyway — it feels rather cheap, and performance is horrible compared to mid-range DSLR, although the price is premium.

If that what DSLR makers are integrating in DSLRs — from quality parts to craftsmanship — were possible to deliver at such a price inside mirrorless systems, all mirrorless-only manufacturers would go bankrupt.

Last edited by Uluru; 10-06-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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