Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-08-2013, 03:58 AM   #196
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,509
QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
The K-3 does also bring other advantages - such as AF etc. But one could always resize the 24 mp images down to 16 mp to gain some noise reduction benefits over the K5II
If the K-3 gets the same DR as the D7100, it will score slightly lower than the K-5 IIs even when resized (the D7100 scores lower on the DxO "print" setting). For high ISO DR, I expect the K-3 to beat the D7100 just as the K-5 beats the D7000 (thanks to Pentax cooking the RAW?). And that means that the K-3 will have better high ISO DR than the D7100 (which is almost 1 Ev better than the D7000 at high ISOs).

10-08-2013, 04:07 AM   #197
Pentaxian
D1N0's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: ---
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,606
Only Full frames do better dat DR than the K-5 II The D600 does 14.2 and the D800 14.4 (as to 14.1 for the K-5 II). The D7000 does 13.9 so maybe Pentax can scrape the same DR out of a 24mp Toshiba.
10-08-2013, 04:09 AM   #198
Veteran Member
Caat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Photos: Albums
Posts: 896
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
If the K-3 gets the same DR as the D7100, it will score slightly lower than the K-5 IIs even when resized (the D7100 scores lower on the DxO "print" setting). .
But to be fair the difference is relatively minor
10-08-2013, 05:19 AM   #199
Pentaxian




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,275
QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
I'm no expert on flash: I hardly ever use it. But I am puzzled to understand why a ND filter wouldn't have a similar effect. I'm obviously missing something owing to my ignorance of flash photography, but it is something I'd like to get more into.
It would have exactly the same effect on exposure assuming an appropriate ND filter. But given the choice of having to add a filter which will lower the quality (possibly imperceptible depending on the filter) or being able to select a lower ISO with a slightly higher quality (a little more DR) and not have to pull out a filter, it's not hard to choose between the two options. It's another case of more choices being nice to have with no drawbacks.

10-08-2013, 05:29 AM   #200
Pentaxian
dosdan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,697
QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
People who do not need more mp but want greater dr will see a problem.
While I'm a fan of DR, more MP is handy when you need to crop. And particularly if you shoot action, you end up cropping a lot.

Just how much greater DR can you actually use in the real world with lens flare and veiling glare likely in very high contrast situations? Ever tried directly shooting a street lamp and nearby structures at night?

Of course, if the subject is static, you can get much greater DR with the raw HDR, while still having high MP.

Dan.

Last edited by dosdan; 10-08-2013 at 05:35 AM.
10-08-2013, 07:52 AM   #201
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 291
There are some interesting marketing materials with tech explanations on this you tube channel but I don't understand japanese: pentaxplus - YouTube
10-08-2013, 07:56 AM - 1 Like   #202
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 291
About my previous message: there is also english version now
10-08-2013, 08:19 AM   #203
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Southern Indiana
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 14,933
Honestly, the difference in dynamic range is about the same between the two cameras -- 0.4 EVs difference is certainly not enough that you wouldn't actually notice a difference in real life shooting. If you need wider dynamic range than 13 EVs, then you really need to take multiple exposures. Those who have shot with the D7100 have said that there is a real difference with regard to printing ability as compared to the K5 -- more details on the D7100. I think this will be a great landscape/wildlife camera and I don't see anything negative about it in comparison to the K5 II.

10-08-2013, 08:34 AM   #204
Veteran Member
TenZ.NL's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Below sealevel
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,100
Just did a quick noise comparison (1600 and 3200) on DPR between the D7100, K5IIs and the K5 classic. The D7100 looked worse than the K5`s, I hope Pentax does a similair job as they did with the 16MP Sony sensor.
10-08-2013, 09:17 AM   #205
Veteran Member
Caat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Photos: Albums
Posts: 896
QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
Just did a quick noise comparison (1600 and 3200) on DPR between the D7100, K5IIs and the K5 classic. The D7100 looked worse than the K5`s, I hope Pentax does a similair job as they did with the 16MP Sony sensor.
Worse at 100% or worse even when resized?
10-08-2013, 09:55 AM   #206
Veteran Member
TenZ.NL's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Below sealevel
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,100
QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Worse at 100% or worse even when resized?
@ 100%

But have a look:
K5 IIs @ 1600
D7100 @ 1600

It is somewhat difficult to compare because of the bigger resolution. And also the K5IIs produces moire (look at the VW beetle) where the D7100 does not. But the image of the Nikon seems somewhat softer.

Last edited by TenZ.NL; 10-08-2013 at 10:06 AM.
10-08-2013, 10:53 AM   #207
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 888
120g more brain mass. All the screws that I was missing in my K5. This is the most convincing argument for a K3.
Time to wait for real tests.
10-08-2013, 12:44 PM   #208
Veteran Member
Caat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Photos: Albums
Posts: 896
QuoteOriginally posted by TenZ.NL Quote
@ 100%

But have a look:
K5 IIs @ 1600
D7100 @ 1600

It is somewhat difficult to compare because of the bigger resolution. And also the K5IIs produces moire (look at the VW beetle) where the D7100 does not. But the image of the Nikon seems somewhat softer.

The colour noise seems a touch worse on the 7100 in general - although we will have to see what Pentax comes up with
10-08-2013, 12:48 PM   #209
Pentaxian
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,631
I'll go by what DXO says; the K-5 IIs and D7100 are virtually equals for noise, DR and colour tone. Comparing at different resolutions is problematic, as is conversion with different softwares.
10-08-2013, 02:12 PM - 2 Likes   #210
Pentaxian
dosdan's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,697
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Comparing at different resolutions is problematic
Yes. More MP on the same sized sensor means smaller sensels. For the same level of sensor technology, small sensels are individually noisier than large sensels. But if you were to print out the same sized output images, say A4 or 11"x8.5" sized prints, then more sensels reduce the overall noise level. So, if the fill factor is the same (how much of the sensor's surface is actually capable of generating a signal from the light, rather than "wasting" some of the sensor's area with connecting traces and other structural elements, both trends tend to cancel out. In the old days, when fill factors were low, more MP meant overall noisier images. But today, with very high fill factors due to efficient micro-lens designs, there's not much in it.

To test this assertion, compare the DxoMark SNR 18% graphs of the the D7100 vs the K-5II:

Compare cameras side by side - DxOMark

Look at the SNR 18% curves. These show the shot/photonic noise performance of the sensors, and are a good indicator of the sensor's QE (quantum efficiency). The "Print" tab shows the outputs normalised to the same printout size, and the two curves are very close. Now click on the "Screen" tab and you are comparing the same number of MPs (like 100% pixel peeping) and you'll see a difference in noise performance due to the smaller sensels: 3.9µm vs 4.75µm distance between the centre of each sensel.

It comes down to how you want to use the extra MPs. If you want to produce a proportionally larger printout with the the D7100, and look closely at it, then yes, it will appear noisier. But if you use the extra MPs to increase the fine detail in the same-sized printout, extra noise should not be an issue.

However, there is a flip side to this. While the extra MPs means you can crop an D7100 image more, for the same number of overall pixels in the resultant image, the D7100 image will look noisier than a K5II image.

Finally, there's an argument that, for the same overall image SNR, since smaller sensels produce smaller sized "grains" of noise, the noise is therefore more film-like and thus more aesthetically acceptable. This assumes that the two cameras have the same ratio of luminance noise to chroma noise. Many designers more heavily filter the chroma (colour) noise as it's more noticeable, and the loss of colour resolution caused by the filtering is unlikely to be noticed. The luminance (B&W) noise is less objectionable than chroma noise and heavily filtering it tends to produce a noticeable loss in resolution.

Dan.

Last edited by dosdan; 10-30-2013 at 03:45 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
cameras, pentax k-3, pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nature Pampas Highlights ozwald Post Your Photos! 2 08-27-2013 06:54 PM
how is the k-5 in regards to highlights clipping? Skog Pentax K-5 4 01-27-2011 04:18 PM
P52-3-24 Light: Bokeh Highlights Rense Weekly Photo Challenges 26 01-17-2011 01:06 AM
Pentax K-5 + several lenses converted in LR 3.3 ogl Pentax K-5 3 12-12-2010 12:46 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:50 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top