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03-31-2008, 08:43 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Gruoso... BTW, I don't understand why it torks you and Tom and Mat off so much that he posted here in what you consider to be the wrong place?
Whoah champ! Don't go lumping me into that mess.

Read my post, I'm with Chris on this one and could care less that it's not Pentax News or Rumors..

EDIT: MRRiley was not lumping me in - He meant another Tom.. OOPS


Last edited by Tom M; 03-31-2008 at 05:17 PM.
03-31-2008, 08:47 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
Gruoso... Image theft is image theft! Chris is perfectly justified in complaining and I was happy to see that the DPR thread was gone by the time I saw this thread. Doesn't matter if they were "good enough to steal" or not. If someone steals your dog is it any less a crime if it is a mutt than if it was a purebred? Nope!

Also... Photographs do not have to be "registered" with the Copyright Office in order to be protected by copyright. In the US images, paintings, poems, songs, etc are protected by copyright "at time of creation". All registration gets you is a few dollars poorer but with extra proof if you have to sue someone for infringement.

BTW, why does it tork you off so much that he posted here in what you consider to be the wrong place? It's not like he committed a felony or anything. Jeez... Perhaps he just picked the wrong forum in the midst of his anger. Perhaps he considered this to be the right place. Who knows... Anyway, if its truly the wrong forum, and Alan agrees, he will probably move it.
OK I think that I have to explain myself better. First, to steal the images that Chris took for the forum is wrong and I agree with everyone of you in this regard. Then comes the point of the thread and the posting place. In my book, that was a lame excuse to look for people attention again to reafirm himself in his role of Pentax-knight-for-justice. He used the News and Rumors cos it has 10-20 times more visits than general talk or everything else together. Hence the crystal clear intention of posting in the wrong site to get attention. The intentions of every post about gear that he (and others) made are clearly biased toward an end (I dont blame him for trying it). All of those posts are anything but objective and disinterested and that it is particularly evident when they come from somebody who get some extrabucks by selling pentax. IMO this kind of advertising should be avoided as it is in most of the forums, but this is not the point of my post.

The point of my post is that his case is not like the case of Tom M and his Altea images stolen for a comercial purpose. The intention of the posts that later the Dpreview guy stole was to show how well Pentax performed compared to the other brands, not anything artistic or the like. In Pentaxforums, some people raved and trashed the rest of the brands in the same way that they did it in Dpreview. So why should he be upset. At the end of the day, and propietary rights aside, what they did, was exactly what it was done here. I dont think that the event is enought excuse to misplace deliverately the post as a way to childishly look for the people compassion.

From now on I will follow somebody's advice and watch the things from the fence. Apologies to all the rest of posters who felt offended.
03-31-2008, 09:03 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
OK I think that I have to explain myself better. First, to steal the images that Chris took for the forum is wrong and I agree with everyone of you in this regard. Then comes the point of the thread and the posting place. In my book, that was a lame excuse to look for people attention again to reafirm himself in his role of Pentax-knight-for-justice. He used the News and Rumors cos it has 10-20 times more visits than general talk or everything else together. Hence the crystal clear intention of posting in the wrong site to get attention. The intentions of every post about gear that he (and others) made are clearly biased toward an end (I dont blame him for trying it). All of those posts are anything but objective and disinterested and that it is particularly evident when they come from somebody who get some extrabucks by selling pentax. IMO this kind of advertising should be avoided as it is in most of the forums, but this is not the point of my post.

The point of my post is that his case is not like the case of Tom M and his Altea images stolen for a comercial purpose. The intention of the posts that later the Dpreview guy stole was to show how well Pentax performed compared to the other brands, not anything artistic or the like. In Pentaxforums, some people raved and trashed the rest of the brands in the same way that they did it in Dpreview. So why should he be upset. At the end of the day, and propietary rights aside, what they did, was exactly what it was done here. I dont think that the event is enought excuse to misplace deliverately the post as a way to childishly look for the people compassion.

From now on I will follow somebody's advice and watch the things from the fence. Apologies to all the rest of posters who felt offended.
First off I don't make a buck off Pentax unless I personally sell the camera in my store period. I gain nothing from Pentax's fortune. I shoot what I shoot because it's the best IMO. I always state things as my opinion if you take it as fact then you're just trying to make someone look bad to further your cause.

NDA wizard... why are you so jealous of people. It's silly, it really is. I spend some effort away from my actual photography business to test gear and have fun with photography and you have to swoop in mad as heck because the K20D is the better camera in terms of a photography tool. I don't understand, I really don't.

Debating camera gear has become the same league as debating politics, it's a you're right and I'm wrong and nothing in between. If you sat around all the different gear as much as I do you'd slowly understand certain aspects of each camera. I won't go in depth because I know you'll dismiss it because you're right and Pentax makes crappy cameras compared to Nikon and Canon.

To take my work, edit it, and use it out of context is awful and illegal. And the images do not show that the K20D was worse because again it's not a color competition like I stated when I took them, just noise. I have prints in my store from actual photographer using the K20D, A700 and 40D at super high ISO's doing sports and nature and it's quite an interesting site to see. You'd be amazed at who has the best IQ, but again I'm wrong because you always like to tell me so.

Why did I post this here? Because I consider it news that people have to take my work out of context and abuse it. Could it have gone in other sections? Yes, does it matter? Probably not.

I'm sorry that I offend you because I try and contribute to the community by making videos, helping others with their questions about photography, doing lame tests with different cameras, running a photography business in town with Pentax gear and being busier than photographers that have been here for 20+ years and of course speaking with Pentax representatives and trying to relay what I'm allowed to say to you guys that care to know.
03-31-2008, 09:06 AM   #34
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I'd suggest that this thread be closed. I has the appearance of a thread that's going to escalate in to major flame war and p*ssing contest.

03-31-2008, 09:07 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
First off I don't make a buck off Pentax unless I personally sell the camera in my store period. I gain nothing from Pentax's fortune. I shoot what I shoot because it's the best IMO. I always state things as my opinion if you take it as fact then you're just trying to make someone look bad to further your cause.

NDA wizard... why are you so jealous of people. It's silly, it really is. I spend some effort away from my actual photography business to test gear and have fun with photography and you have to swoop in mad as heck because the K20D is the better camera in terms of a photography tool. I don't understand, I really don't.

Debating camera gear has become the same league as debating politics, it's a you're right and I'm wrong and nothing in between. If you sat around all the different gear as much as I do you'd slowly understand certain aspects of each camera. I won't go in depth because I know you'll dismiss it because you're right and Pentax makes crappy cameras compared to Nikon and Canon.

To take my work, edit it, and use it out of context is awful and illegal. And the images do not show that the K20D was worse because again it's not a color competition like I stated when I took them, just noise. I have prints in my store from actual photographer using the K20D, A700 and 40D at super high ISO's doing sports and nature and it's quite an interesting site to see. You'd be amazed at who has the best IQ, but again I'm wrong because you always like to tell me so.

Why did I post this here? Because I consider it news that people have to take my work out of context and abuse it. Could it have gone in other sections? Yes, does it matter? Probably not.

I'm sorry that I offend you because I try and contribute to the community by making videos, helping others with their questions about photography, doing lame tests with different cameras, running a photography business in town with Pentax gear and being busier than photographers that have been here for 20+ years and of course speaking with Pentax representatives and trying to relay what I'm allowed to say to you guys that care to know.
Lame original post. Lame argument. L-A-M-E
03-31-2008, 09:15 AM   #36
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Gruoso, I thought you were going to sit on the fence and watch from the sidelines. I have a sharp pointed fence you can sit on.

J.C. Lighten up. Including you, everyone has an opinion but there's no need to continue the attack you somehow seem so justified in pushing.

I for one have found Chris's work, threads and insights helpful. I've learned a lot from him and consider him a valuable member of the forum.

I'd like to note that he took the "high road" and didn't attack you back but you continue. I guess that shows who's the better man.
03-31-2008, 09:21 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
Whoah champ! Don't go lumping me into that mess.

Read my post, I'm with Chris on this one and could care less that it's not Pentax News or Rumors..
Sorry Tom... I meant Tom Lusk... have edited my original post accordingly.
03-31-2008, 09:24 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
Gruoso, I thought you were going to sit on the fence and watch from the sidelines. I have a sharp pointed fence you can sit on.

J.C. Lighten up. Including you, everyone has an opinion but there's no need to continue the attack you somehow seem so justified in pushing.

I for one have found Chris's work, threads and insights helpful. I've learned a lot from him and consider him a valuable member of the forum.

I'd like to note that he took the "high road" and didn't attack you back but you continue. I guess that shows who's the better man.
I hate to have to tell you this cos I really respect you but the world is full of sharp pointed fences where everybody can sit Peter. I throw the first stone and I accept the responsabilities. I dont consider his post free of attacks althought I recognize that I was in the offensive mode today. Now please point me to the sharp pointed fence that I promise to dont jump again.

03-31-2008, 09:28 AM   #39
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You and I can sit side by side on the fence. It's Monday, month end and work is driving me crazy lately and the tone of the thread really got under my skin. Let's all call it a day and agree to disagree.
03-31-2008, 09:32 AM   #40
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Oh man, I am in trouble

QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
agree to disagree.
I agree....
03-31-2008, 09:40 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
You and I can sit side by side on the fence. It's Monday, month end and work is driving me crazy lately and the tone of the thread really got under my skin. Let's all call it a day and agree to disagree.
(from the fence) You won me here, I surrender. I have been working too many weekends without resting and my mood is getting too sour.
03-31-2008, 10:04 AM   #42
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I just love the way DPReview never shows flags such as "This thread has been removed" or any kind of moderation notice. Posts just vanish with no explanation.
03-31-2008, 11:34 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
ISO 800: 40D vs A700 and K20D: Canon EOS 40D/30D/20D/10D Forum: Digital Photography Review

I can't believe that people are stretching the fair use laws to support this guy.
As one of those "people", I wasn't trying specifically to back up the OP in this case. I agree that it probably doesn't qualify for Fair Use.

I just wanted to point out that Fair Use rights for photographs *do* exist... that means in some cases others can excerpt your copyrighted works without permission, for certain uses. I think Fair Use is an important right to have for purposes of criticism, parody, etc.... so I hate to see it trampled on.

QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
I'm downright enraged at this point. I'm going to knock on some doors if it doesn't get pulled quickly enough.

So out of context and so not cool.

ARGH!
I'm glad to see the issue got resolved. Once again, I was skeptical that this case qualified as Fair Use... I just hate to see the concept trashed, though!!
03-31-2008, 12:14 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by moxfyre Quote
As one of those "people", I wasn't trying specifically to back up the OP in this case. I agree that it probably doesn't qualify for Fair Use.

I just wanted to point out that Fair Use rights for photographs *do* exist... that means in some cases others can excerpt your copyrighted works without permission, for certain uses. I think Fair Use is an important right to have for purposes of criticism, parody, etc.... so I hate to see it trampled on.



I'm glad to see the issue got resolved. Once again, I was skeptical that this case qualified as Fair Use... I just hate to see the concept trashed, though!!
The concept is made for educators and librarians and shouldn't be used to grab peoples work online, manipulate the and then use them out of context. If he had shown my work as an original and cited me as the source then there wouldn't be any problem under fair use but again he didn't follow the proper channels to do what he did.
03-31-2008, 12:34 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
The concept is made for educators and librarians and shouldn't be used to grab peoples work online, manipulate the and then use them out of context. If he had shown my work as an original and cited me as the source then there wouldn't be any problem under fair use but again he didn't follow the proper channels to do what he did.
It's true that the concept *is* intended to protect educators and librarians. It is *also* intended to protect reviews, criticism, parody, mockery, and other sorts of things.

Again, I *completely agree* that this case is questionable... and it would have been very easy for him to contact you and ask permission. It's unfortunate that he didn't, and you have reason to be upset.
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