Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-25-2013, 05:54 PM   #61
Veteran Member
bossa's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 4,546
QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I am sorry if I plucked on some tender strings. Of course the possibilities are interesting but, being only possibilities, they are open to debate. None of this matters which is the most important thing to keep in mind. Not a single person will be unable to continue with their photography whether Pentax stays or Pentax goes. But I think it's highly unlikely Pentax is about to go. Who would ever want to buy it now, for a start? Hoya kept the medical division and Ricoh would surely keep the patents and IP. There's nothing left after that beyond bits and pieces (and loss of face).
You are misguided... Tender strings? Not really.


Last edited by bossa; 10-26-2013 at 01:18 AM.
10-25-2013, 05:56 PM   #62
Veteran Member
bossa's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 4,546
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
You are joking, right? Ricoh has fully integrated Pentax into its business plan.
This is a thread in the Pentax News & Rumors section. Playing devil's advocate is a valid thing in such a forum.
10-25-2013, 08:58 PM   #63
Veteran Member
anthony mazzeri's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 312
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
No one has a clue as to where those two brands are going, and no one is able to see anything farther than K-3, GR and rehashes of other things.
True, I myself dissed the 'APSC sensor in the GRD' rumours, believing it was simply impossible to keep the same size and form factor with a collapsible lens. But by the magic of micro lenses voila, the totally fanciful rumours became reality and I learnt my lesson - I am now prepared to believe even the most far-fetched rumour!

Especially from Ricoh. I doubt a single person in the whole world even imagined let alone predicted the GXR - even after its actual launch, most people still refused to accept it! When that Ricoh guy said their FF camera would have to be different from anything else already out there, I think he really means it. So the Ricoh rumours I'm least likely to accept are actually the least imaginative ones such as simply putting a FF sensor in the K-3 body.
10-25-2013, 11:32 PM   #64
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,541
QuoteOriginally posted by anthony mazzeri Quote
True, I myself dissed the 'APSC sensor in the GRD' rumours, believing it was simply impossible to keep the same size and form factor with a collapsible lens. But by the magic of micro lenses voila, the totally fanciful rumours became reality and I learnt my lesson - I am now prepared to believe even the most far-fetched rumour!

Especially from Ricoh. I doubt a single person in the whole world even imagined let alone predicted the GXR - even after its actual launch, most people still refused to accept it! When that Ricoh guy said their FF camera would have to be different from anything else already out there, I think he really means it. So the Ricoh rumours I'm least likely to accept are actually the least imaginative ones such as simply putting a FF sensor in the K-3 body.
:

Well, if they don't release an FF DSLR, they'll lose about remaining 50% of the Pentax userbase who are still hanging on thread.
Pentax users were begging for FF DSLR, not some weird gizmo, and if the K-3 shape will do it, let's bloody do it. It is actually disgraceful behaviour from Ricoh for delaying it so long — they should be ashamed. And they have no excuses for it — they have screwed it up. And I read this official apology from Ricoh Imaging Russia just as that — "give us please a little more time."

Even a shoebox with a K-mount and FF sensor will do, how things are now. Let them first address that camera, and then let them play around with mirrorless legos and playdough.

On the mirrorless end, I don't give a damn what will Ricoh do. They may experiment with whatever they fancy, and do the craziest designs in the world. And they may stamp "Ricoh" all over the body and lenses.


Last edited by Uluru; 10-25-2013 at 11:38 PM.
10-26-2013, 12:29 AM   #65
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,327
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
But that is all immaterial. No one has a clue as to where those two brands are going, and no one is able to see anything farther than K-3, GR and rehashes of other things. All other players are currently nuking the market with new announcements, 5-year plans, bold moves, even spreading rumours themselves ..
You have no clue, and you can't see anything farther than K-3, GR and rehashes of other things.
For certain, some people are allowed a quick glimpse into the immediate future.

QuoteOriginally posted by anthony mazzeri Quote
When that Ricoh guy said their FF camera would have to be different from anything else already out there, I think he really means it. So the Ricoh rumours I'm least likely to accept are actually the least imaginative ones such as simply putting a FF sensor in the K-3 body.
Sorry, but who said that and when? Let's go back at the source, see if they really said that and add some context.
Because as I remember, it was about finding USPs for a SLR product.
10-26-2013, 02:40 AM   #66
Senior Member
french_mike's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Ireland and France
Posts: 167
QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
Mirrorless is the only way to achieve a body that looks like the cameras in the past.
<br />
What about Nikon DF ?

Last edited by french_mike; 10-26-2013 at 02:50 AM.
10-26-2013, 04:09 AM   #67
Site Supporter
Cynog Ap Brychan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucester
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,092
Methinks some people doth protest too much....
10-26-2013, 04:10 AM   #68
Site Supporter
Cynog Ap Brychan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Gloucester
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,092
QuoteOriginally posted by french_mike Quote
What about Nikon DF ?
It's not clear what that camera looks like yet.

10-26-2013, 09:39 AM   #69
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Nelson B.C.
Posts: 3,267
QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
It's not clear what that camera looks like yet.
Its not clear that it exists.

Nikon just had it's ' cheapest full frame' crown taken away from it. They will do something.
10-26-2013, 09:59 AM   #70
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,426
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It is actually disgraceful behaviour from Ricoh for delaying it so long — they should be ashamed. And they have no excuses for it — they have screwed it up. And I read this official apology from Ricoh Imaging Russia just as that — "give us please a little more time."
Wow. Just. Wow.
10-26-2013, 09:59 AM   #71
Site Supporter
jatrax's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oregon
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 10,770
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Well, if they don't release an FF DSLR, they'll lose about remaining 50% of the Pentax userbase who are still hanging on thread.
I'm going to call BS on this. I don't think 50% of Pentax user base even knows what 'FF' means and could care less if they did. Just because a bunch of gear enthusiasts on an internet forum want a FF Pentax doesn't mean any significant portion of the user base does. Total FF camera market is share is supposed to be around 5% from what I've seen posted, so are you saying that 10 times more Pentax users want FF than the rest of the industry?

I don't necessarily disagree that Pentax should come out with a FF camera but making up meaningless numbers to support your theory is not going to scare Ricoh into doing it.
10-26-2013, 10:33 AM   #72
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,426
It really is very simple.

Assume FF is desirable.
Assume lenses catalog is optimized for APSc

Cost = a + b + c + d

Capital = a
Time = b
Engineers = c
Patents = d
APSc Patents = d1
FF Patents = d2
a + b + c = Constant
d1 = Many
d2 = Few
~ d1 Cost < d2 Cost
Pentax product manager asks self:

if
a
+ b + c + d1 = cost
and
What the market will bear = Price
then
"How many APSc bodies can we sell @ x profit / APSc body, soon?" = current FY Profit.

if
a
+ b + c + d2 = cost
and
What the market will bear = Price
then
"How many FF bodies can we sell @ y profit / FF body, soon?" = current FY profit.

# APSc * x = more Money sooner
# FF * y = some Money later

Pentax product manager orders 90% capital allocation to K3 development and 10% capital allocation to FF development.

K3 outsells production target, makes fantastic profit and brings acclaim and new customers to Pentax.

Pentax Product Manager makes presentation to Ricoh corporate owners:

See? Told ya! Now I need more capital for FF so I can hire engineers, issue patents and license technology!

Ricoh corporate owners reply: "Suppose we let you reinvest the profit from K3 in FF?"

Ya gotta work the Plan.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-27-2013 at 07:35 AM.
10-26-2013, 03:44 PM   #73
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,541
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax product manager orders 90% capital allocation to K3 development and 10% capital allocation to FF development.

K3 outsells production target, makes fantastic profit and brings acclaim and new customers to Pentax.
Pentax Product Manager makes presentation to Ricoh corporate owners:
See? Told ya! Now I need more capital for FF so I can hire engineers, issue patents and license technology!
Ricoh corporate owners reply: "Suppose we let you reinvest the profit from K3 in FF?"
Ya gotta work the Plan.
If Ricoh indeed thinks that approach will work, then they have bought Pentax knowing little how camera marketing works.

They must be prepared to splurge some savings on FF straightaway — regardless on how K-3 looks like and comes with — because K-3 can always sell better with an FF camera next to it.

And that's the paradox: K-3 must be a kick-ass feature-full product better than competition in every regard even to start selling decently; meager D7100 with a D800 next to it, or even old dog 7D with 5DIII, will still outsell K-3.

That is the basics of DSLR photography marketing, and one needs no degree from Harvard to understand it. Pentax users were even posting videos for ages about that shortcoming in Pentax marketing.
10-26-2013, 03:48 PM   #74
Banned




Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,541
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
I'm going to call BS on this. I don't think 50% of Pentax user base even knows what 'FF' means and could care less if they did. .
50% of userbase who are still undecided; but know Pentax history and want to see commitment. Overall it may be 15% of all users, I don't know.
10-26-2013, 04:39 PM   #75
Loyal Site Supporter
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 20,426
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If Ricoh indeed thinks that approach will work, then they have bought Pentax knowing little how camera marketing works.

They must be prepared to splurge some savings on FF straightaway — regardless on how K-3 looks like and comes with — because K-3 can always sell better with an FF camera next to it.
Maybe. But you neglected to read the first part of the decision set - the part where it says that capital, engineers and patents are constant and limited. The part where it says the lens catalog is optimized for APSc. They have right now what they have right now. Wishing things were different - insisting that things should be different - doesn't make things different.

Your way seems to be how it looks like it once worked for Nikon and Canon. Not so well for Sony, and for others not at all. How many unshipped cameras do Canon and Nikon have in warehouses right about now?

What if halos don't burn as brightly in today's world as they once did?

Your way doesn't appear to be how Ricoh plans to do it. And they apparently don't need to feel successful on the same schedule you think they need to. In fact they don't do a lot of things the way many expect them to do them.

They're doing first things first. Some things such as modern manufacturing processes and machines are investments necessary to make a competitive FF camera - even a competitive APSc camera - but you and we will never see them or even know they happened.

Pentax is building a strong foundation for a long-term commitment to cameras. Full Frame will come in its time. There will be a market, there will be cameras, there will be customers and there will be Pentax.

Right now there is a K3 and I've ordered one.

Last edited by monochrome; 10-27-2013 at 07:37 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
ff, pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
No April 1 FF rumours this year? normhead Photographic Industry and Professionals 8 04-03-2013 12:43 PM
How Rumours Are Born: New 21.1MP FF coming soon? Nubi Pentax News and Rumors 72 06-12-2010 07:38 PM
For Sale - Sold: LX Viewfinder: FF-1, Brand New In Box frank Sold Items 8 12-16-2009 12:25 AM
Any new rumours about a Pentax FF DSLR yet? jco Pentax News and Rumors 122 02-01-2009 01:55 AM
For Sale - Sold: Like New Pentax FF-1 Waist Level Finder for LX LX60 Sold Items 2 01-08-2009 01:16 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:02 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top