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10-27-2013, 08:31 PM   #151
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10-27-2013, 09:14 PM   #152
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Russia is an emerging market. And is room for a lot of new camera buyers. Maybe Ricoh has a different strategy for this market, than for US or Europe, where the market share of any DSLR company are already established, and is hard to gain few percents.

Anyway, if their is a strategy, and we have some sort of ... ''Ricoh leaks'', it's not bad.
10-27-2013, 10:16 PM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by bvg Quote
For Pentax, all markets except Japanese are emerging
For Ricoh even more so.
As much as Pentax brand once upon a time was one of the most recognisable exports of the Japanese culture, and has taken back to its homeland as much as has given, it seems now it's quite the opposite.
10-29-2013, 04:16 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
This more confirms in my mind that the 645D MkII will be a mirrorless with a much larger sensor due to the approaching FF sensors. There are rumours of 54MP FF cameras up to 75MP (forget that one) so the 645D II will have to be 60MP at least, but more probably 80MP, to stay ahead of the curve. I've been predicting a modular 645D II for ages now and people manage get a laugh out of that but it does make sense to me, at least. Ricoh must realize the advantages of a mirrorless 645D as the A7 cameras are proof of the size reduction that can occur within a format that is normally quite large physically.

Another thing that points to a new FF is the fact we don't have HD updated FA limited lenses yet. I expect those lenses will be discontinued after being upgraded with a larger image circle and HD coatings to allow coverage of a FF sensor with SR.

A mirrorless 645 will decrease it potential marked by 90%. However, by using a ordinary designed DSLR body a 645 could be made significantly smaller. 1/3 of its depth could be shaved off. It wouldn't have to be much larger than a D800; slightly deeper though....
The 645 is only about 1cm deeper than a K-mount camera. So the potential for miniaturization is large.


Last edited by Pål Jensen; 10-29-2013 at 04:46 AM.
10-29-2013, 04:31 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
This more confirms in my mind that the 645D MkII will be a mirrorless with a much larger sensor due to the approaching FF sensors. There are rumours of 54MP FF cameras up to 75MP (forget that one) so the 645D II will have to be 60MP at least, but more probably 80MP, to stay ahead of the curve. I've been predicting a modular 645D II for ages now and people manage get a laugh out of that but it does make sense to me, at least. Ricoh must realize the advantages of a mirrorless 645D as the A7 cameras are proof of the size reduction that can occur within a format that is normally quite large physically.

Another thing that points to a new FF is the fact we don't have HD updated FA limited lenses yet. I expect those lenses will be discontinued after being upgraded with a larger image circle and HD coatings to allow coverage of a FF sensor with SR.
Meanwhile Asahiman confirmed that the Pentax FF will be a 24mp version to be release late next year. By that time Sony will have released the 8 and 8r sporting those 54 and 75 mp sensors, and maybe even a digital medium format. Not a rumor, just an extrapolation from the speed at which things are developing right now.
10-29-2013, 04:45 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Meanwhile Asahiman confirmed that the Pentax FF will be a 24mp version to be release late next year. By that time Sony will have released the 8 and 8r sporting those 54 and 75 mp sensors, and maybe even a digital medium format. Not a rumor, just an extrapolation from the speed at which things are developing right now.
It would be strange if Pentax makes a 24mp FF DSLR. It won't fit that well in their line-up; Pentax will have only one FF body initially. It needs to be at least 36mp so that it sits naturally between the K-3 and the 645DII.
I won't put any faith in the Nikon/Canon/Sony MF rumors. They have been around for over 30 years!
10-29-2013, 04:54 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
I won't put any faith in the Nikon/Canon/Sony MF rumors. They have been around for over 30 years!
Read, there are no Caniso MF rumors to speak of. I'll bite though, with your logic Pentax FF rumors have no credit either.
10-29-2013, 05:55 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
A mirrorless 645 will decrease it potential marked by 90%. However, by using a ordinary designed DSLR body a 645 could be made significantly smaller. 1/3 of its depth could be shaved off. It wouldn't have to be much larger than a D800; slightly deeper though....
The 645 is only about 1cm deeper than a K-mount camera. So the potential for miniaturization is large.
Yes,
but taking into account :

- the EXTRA-SLOW new-lens-design speed we all know from Pentax (about one or two new lenses every year only), i cannot figure a MILC 645 for years unless RICOH decides to sacrify/postpone the arlesian and so looongly awaited 35mm FF - which could by the way be an unforseen consequence of the new Sony A7/r slashed costs apparition ;

- the really specific and often dedicated use of medium format, that doesn't put compacity as a "must" for average user - and even in this respect the 645 system has nothing to "envy" to concurrence - so the current mount and legacy 645 lenses compatibility is more reasonnable than new mount launch ;

I don't think this is gonna happen as soon as 2014, where according to asahi man revelations, they should release 645DII.

=> imho though, it should not be 50Mpix cropped sensor : that would indeed be a mistake - first of all, it HAS TO BE FF 645 :

- As a 645D owner, i wouldn't change mine for the same size, even overpixelled, cropped sensor...
- In addition, the D800 and next-to-come 24x36mm "marketing competition" must be killed.

Conclusion Mr Ricoh : better take one more year to produce a killer FF 80 Mpix 645DII
And please sell it under 12 000 USD.


Last edited by Zygonyx; 10-29-2013 at 06:10 AM.
10-29-2013, 06:42 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
- the really specific and often dedicated use of medium format, that doesn't put compacity as a "must" for average user - and even in this respect the 645 system has nothing to "envy" to concurrence - so the current mount and legacy 645 lenses compatibility is more reasonnable than new mount launch ;
Indeed, one of the virtues of the 645 system is all the existing (and good) lenses, so a new mount makes no sense at all. But I agree with Pål that a new body could be made significantly thinner than the current 645D, which looks as if it still has a film holder attached

QuoteQuote:
first of all, it HAS TO BE FF 645 :
Would you be willing to accept a compromise (if that, for some reason, turns out to be easier to make) - i.e. slightly smaller than 56 x 41.5, but significantly larger than 44 x 33?
10-29-2013, 07:18 AM   #160
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Of course yes, the most important thing being to keep acceptable IQ with the optical qualities of the contemporary lenses, meanwhile distancing the 35mm sensors potential (both in terms of size and resolution)...

As far as size is concerned, and taken as a whole, the current 645 system is not that bigger than Canikons FF systems, even if you take into account lens' focal correspondance.
10-29-2013, 07:29 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Meanwhile Asahiman confirmed that the Pentax FF will be a 24mp version to be release late next year. By that time Sony will have released the 8 and 8r sporting those 54 and 75 mp sensors, and maybe even a digital medium format. Not a rumor, just an extrapolation from the speed at which things are developing right now.
No, he didn't. What he said is that there was a prototype using a 24MP sensor, it was nowhere near production ready and that we should expect significant changes (the K-3 project was significantly changed as well).
10-29-2013, 08:58 AM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
And I don't see any particular reason to expect that the Russian arm of the company is any more in the loop than the US one -- which is to say, not very. I don't know how things have changed with Ricoh, but for the past decade it's been clear that Pentax Japan holds all the engineering and design close, let alone future plans, while the regional subsidiaries are basically just distributors.

So, I'm not saying this isn't true, but I'm also taking it with a huge grain of salt.
It's not so much about arms of companies or virtual distributorships as it is about personal relationships. Officially, Ricoh Russia is probably working with the same info that Ricoh USA, Ricoh Australia, etc. are working with. That doesn't preclude someone in Russia having a special and perhaps off-the-record relationship with someone in Japan. This happens in every company. Some know more than others once in awhile.
10-29-2013, 09:34 AM   #163
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I think they just decided to tell some things

It's a mistake to assume:
- that a subsidiary/regional sales rep would be completely in the dark, not knowing anything in advance
- that they'll tell us everything they know, as soon as they find out.

Last edited by Kunzite; 10-29-2013 at 09:39 AM.
10-29-2013, 09:49 AM   #164
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Despite all the negative comment about FF / MF / lack of lenses and so on, something made me happy about this :

Google translation :
QuoteQuote:
the era of the motto "a good product needs no advertising" has passed, and now Pentax has remained a small business, big spending on advertising was not. Now, after getting into one of Japan's largest corporations - Ricoh - there will be new opportunities in this direction
Thank you god ! now we'll see more advertising, than before, which mean at least a little advertising instead of no advertising at all !

10-29-2013, 10:39 AM   #165
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This must be the only place on earth where people are actually happy with ads.

Last edited by Clavius; 10-29-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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