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12-01-2013, 04:46 PM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apapukas Quote
I agree.

What I have noticed, that a great amount of people a going for FF just for better bokeh, because, in their opinion, photography market demands BOKEH and you really don't have a choice, how to just shoot FF + very fast lens.
Just move back a few steps - and you have bokeh - at f/5.6 even.

12-01-2013, 04:53 PM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Just move back a few steps - and you have bokeh - at f/5.6 even.
Yes, but you can never have a FF+ f/1.4 kind of bokeh on an APS-C.

But don't get me wrong, I am no bokeh fanboy, I usually shoot at f/5.6, that is just what I often hear.
12-01-2013, 05:01 PM   #273
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Well, I just sold a used Canon 50mm 1.2 L for to a 5d user for 1200 bucks a mere 5 minutes after posting it, despite the fact that the image quality was nothing to write home about. So Bokeh isgood for something, namely commanding higher prices!

In all seriousness, though, the low light capabilities of fast lenses (and FF sensors) are a real advantage, albeit one that is somewhat overstated.

QuoteOriginally posted by Apapukas Quote
Yes, but you can never have a FF+ f/1.4 kind of bokeh on an APS-C.

But don't get me wrong, I am no bokeh fanboy, I usually shoot at f/5.6, that is just what I often hear.
12-01-2013, 05:25 PM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apapukas Quote
Yes, but you can never have a FF+ f/1.4 kind of bokeh on an APS-C.
Never say "never":

SLR Magic Hyperprime LM CINE 50mm T/0.95 on Sony NEX - Review / Test Report

"Equiv. aperture f/1.4 (full format equivalent, in terms of depth-of-field)"
"It fulfills its design priorities – according to the manufacturer . . . plus a smooth bokeh."

12-01-2013, 05:32 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Never say "never":

SLR Magic Hyperprime LM CINE 50mm T/0.95 on Sony NEX - Review / Test Report

"Equiv. aperture f/1.4 (full format equivalent, in terms of depth-of-field)"
"It fulfills its design priorities – according to the manufacturer . . . plus a smooth bokeh."
Well, I guess you are right

But...

For the price of that lens you can get a FF+f/1.2. A little absurd IMO.
12-01-2013, 05:36 PM   #276
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QuoteOriginally posted by Apapukas Quote
A little absurd IMO.
Yep, I "make do" with my A50/1.2 on a K-01 and K-50 (using focus peaking).
12-01-2013, 07:05 PM   #277
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Telephoto shallow DOF is not of interest to me. The difference between 55/1.4 on APS-C and 85/1.4 on FF is the difference between destroying the background and obliterating the background. When you can no longer tell what you're looking at, any further blur is meaningless IMO.

The real big difference, and the one of most interest to me, is wide angle shallow DOF (and light gathering capability for night landscapes). Take a 24mm f/1.4 on FF. The closest you can get to that on APS-C is either the Samyang 16mm f/2.0 or the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8. Both have approximately a 2-stop disadvantage compared the the FF 24/1.4, one of which is MF and the other is not quite as wide.

Wide angle environmental shots where the background is subtly, but noticeably, blurred making the subject pop out are difficult on FF. On APS-C or smaller, they're almost impossible.
12-01-2013, 07:16 PM   #278
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I'm not really ready to buy FF. However, I may see how it goes...

12-02-2013, 04:41 AM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Never thought about the difference in viewfinder?
Honestly, what percentage of folks manual focus at this point? Even most full frame viewfinders of auto focus cameras will not compare to the "glory days" of manual focus viewfinders back in the day. I feel like a penta prism APS-C viewfinder is adequate for what it is -- checking that my camera auto focused correctly. But maybe you are right and what we really need is EVFs on all cameras to get back a truly big and bright viewfinder.
12-02-2013, 06:22 AM   #280
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I was making an implicit reference to picture framing / composing, not to manual focusing.

As a true amateur, I find it more pleasant to frame a picture with a 24x36 viewfinder, even that of a modern, autofocus camera (Canon EOS 5D MkIII or Nikon D800 for instance) than with an APS-C viewfinder.

Of course a 645D (or any medium format camera for that matter) would be even more pleasant but it plays in another league, price-wise and weight-wise.

And you are right, once they are perfected, electronic viewfinders will suppress the 24x36's advantage as far as viewfinders (and myself) are concerned.
12-02-2013, 07:52 AM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Honestly, what percentage of folks manual focus at this point?
Do we need to run a poll?

But at the very least among macro and video photographers,
the percentage may not be that small.

Look at how focus peaking has become quite the feature.
12-02-2013, 08:09 AM   #282
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Do we need to run a poll?

But at the very least among macro and video photographers,
the percentage may not be that small.

Look at how focus peaking has become quite the feature.
Sure, but for both those situations, I believe that a tilting LCD is probably at least as beneficial, or maybe more so than a full frame viewfinder...
12-02-2013, 08:16 AM   #283
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80% of my lenses are MF... I love MF... what's wrong with that?
And as far as I know I am not the only one... actually I know a lot of people that prefer MF over AF.
12-02-2013, 08:37 AM   #284
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I appreciate to be able to use both AF and MF, depending on circustances...
When taking macros, portraits, landscapes, you actually don't need AF.
That's quite significant, unless you specialise shooting mooving subjects - and even then, MF is noway impossible / often possible.
12-03-2013, 04:13 AM   #285
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Those of you who don't care for AF: do you have only fast glass? I certainly remember, in the old days, struggling with a darkening split-image focusing aid with lenses of even F4 sometimes. OK, even this may not be a big deal with inanimate subjects, but otherwise, having the subject wait while you're trying to fight the dark split-image is not always acceptable.
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