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12-04-2013, 02:52 PM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Your list is as debatable as the whole issue
You can only fuel the fire making such a list (in any side of the issue)
He just does that because he likes arguing with me…

12-04-2013, 03:49 PM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
And 7% of what you can do on an APS-c camera, you can't do on an FF.
False.

Any image an APS-C camera can make, a FF camera can replicate perfectly with the same pixel density and technology generation. You know how? By cropping.

Take a D800, stick any lens on it, FF or APS-C, crop the image and it will be indistinguishable from a shot taken with the D7000 with the same lens and same settings. Nikon even makes it easy by providing automatic crop modes and saving you post-processing time.
12-05-2013, 07:58 AM - 1 Like   #303
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7% is one of those estimates from no where, but the concept of APS-c having strengths that FF can' match is absolutely true… The largest crop image on an FF is 15 Mp. A K-3 is 24 Mp, a D7100 is 24 Mp. You used the top Mp FF camera and put it against less than the top APS-c camera, doesn't that make you feel a little dishonest? . Using the same lens, the FF gives you neither the DoF, nor the resolution.

On images like this which is about a 70% crop, of a "crop sensor" the lack of IQ using a crop of an FF would be poor, really, not worth bothering with, compared to the APS-c version. ANd the 600 mm lens you'd need to do an FF version, wouldn't have the same DoF at the same aperture, would be too heavy to carry, and 10 times the price of the 400mm lens I took this with.


Last edited by normhead; 12-05-2013 at 08:50 AM.
12-05-2013, 01:09 PM   #304
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That's very true, until Sony's next rumored 54 Mpix FF sensor comes out in Nikon D900 / Sony A7n, by one or two years...

12-05-2013, 01:35 PM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
False.

Any image an APS-C camera can make, a FF camera can replicate perfectly with the same pixel density and technology generation. You know how? By cropping.

Take a D800, stick any lens on it, FF or APS-C, crop the image and it will be indistinguishable from a shot taken with the D7000 with the same lens and same settings. Nikon even makes it easy by providing automatic crop modes and saving you post-processing time.
As Norm says, as long as APS-C has higher pixel density, there will be a difference in photos you can take. I do think there is more cropability from the same focal length with the K3 than certainly, say, with a 5D MK III, D600, or a D4. The only camera that can currently come close is the D800 and that is "crippled" with a slowish frame rate.
12-05-2013, 03:17 PM   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
As Norm says, as long as APS-C has higher pixel density, there will be a difference in photos you can take.

Sure... but Norm's pic is ~1MB.

The cases where APS-C pixel density beats full-frame or cropped full frame are approximately 0.07%.
12-05-2013, 03:36 PM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Sure... but Norm's pic is ~1MB.

The cases where APS-C pixel density beats full-frame or cropped full frame are approximately 0.07%.
How did you arrive at that, you just made it up didn't you? Every K-3 or D7100 beats every full frame at both magnification in the crop area and resolution in the crop area, and most FFs up to the the 24 MP D6100 and D800, beats them in over all resolution as well, even with the FF using it's full sensor area.. Currently if you wish to beat a K-3 in resolution you need a 36 MP FF camera, no other FFs need apply. And really, FF or APS-c has not much to do with it. More MPs means more resolution, and higher iQ.

Last edited by normhead; 12-05-2013 at 03:43 PM.
12-05-2013, 03:41 PM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
How did you arrive at that, you just made it up didn't you?
He's pulling your chain. It should be 0.7%, not 0.07%





Ducking now

12-06-2013, 10:35 AM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
He's pulling your chain. It should be 0.7%, not 0.07%
Ducking now
I hate it when he does that.
12-06-2013, 10:41 AM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
That's very true, until Sony's next rumored 54 Mpix FF sensor comes out in Nikon D900 / Sony A7n, by one or two years...
I'm defintiely concerned about the pixel size and resulting noise etc that's becoming apparent with really small pixel sizes. I'm hoping Pentax can come out with a 30 MP FF, not that I have a clue where they'd get it from. If Nikon comes out with a 54, it will be in a Pentax a year later, that seems to be the trend. At this point I'm more once red with minimizing file size than increased resolution at the expense of colour reproduction and noise. The K-3 24 MP APS-c has convinced me I don't want a 54 MP FF.
12-06-2013, 11:29 PM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If Nikon comes out with a 54, it will be in a Pentax a year later, that seems to be the trend.
I must have missed something here.
12-07-2013, 07:12 AM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
?????????? Google
Pay attention!
1. FF will be next year. Not later than Photokina 2014. Maybe, on spring or summer, 2014.
2. New DFA lenses will be offered. New 2.8 zooms will be made.
3. New Limited Zoom will be real.
4. New WR lenses will be launched.
5. K-01 is failed because of design. Mirrorless cameras - Ricoh will offer something new.
6. New 645D will be later. It will be different from 645D. It was plans to launch 645DII this year, but the situation is changed.
7. SMC DA LIMITED are discontinued.
I will buy a FF of pentax-ricoh, sure.
body: 2000$, 01 len: 1000$, temporary like this
12-07-2013, 08:11 AM   #313
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Honestly, do you guys think Pentax has a choice on whether to release FF or not in a few years?
The Canon 6D FF is down to $1400: http:///permadeal/108622/buydig---canon-6d-20.2mp-full-frame-dslr-camera-pix...ards?#comments
at Buydig if the link doesn't work...and it includes a printer and memory card and photo paper. That's ridiculously cheap.
And that's probably also why the K-3 price is dropping so quickly...APS-C DSLRs seem to be dropping faster now...the D7100 was lightning deal'd by Amazon on BF for $700. Smartphones killed off the lower end...mirrorless is killing off the lower end DSLRs.
12-07-2013, 09:41 AM - 1 Like   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Honestly, do you guys think Pentax has a choice on whether to release FF or not in a few years?
The Canon 6D FF is down to $1400: http:///permadeal/108622/buydig---canon-6d-20.2mp-full-frame-dslr-camera-pix...ards?#comments
at Buydig if the link doesn't work...and it includes a printer and memory card and photo paper. That's ridiculously cheap.
And that's probably also why the K-3 price is dropping so quickly...APS-C DSLRs seem to be dropping faster now...the D7100 was lightning deal'd by Amazon on BF for $700. Smartphones killed off the lower end...mirrorless is killing off the lower end DSLRs.
In a few years?? The way the market is going where I live, I'd say more likely in a few months.
12-09-2013, 11:58 PM   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
False.

Any image an APS-C camera can make, a FF camera can replicate perfectly with the same pixel density and technology generation. You know how? By cropping.

Take a D800, stick any lens on it, FF or APS-C, crop the image and it will be indistinguishable from a shot taken with the D7000 with the same lens and same settings. Nikon even makes it easy by providing automatic crop modes and saving you post-processing time.
No, this is not true. Because APSC cameras have a larger focus points coverage.

D7100 and D800 use basically the same 51 points focus system. The focus points are mostly in the center in the D800, but they spread out in a D7100, since the points are there, and the CMOS in a D7100 is smaller

And this can be very useful when you have a high demand on focusing
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