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12-20-2013, 09:39 AM - 1 Like   #451
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For you resolution addicts - as opposed to people who like pictures - I just sold a 16x24 canvas wrap. It was on my wall at home, and I wanted to hang something else so I lent it to the local library. One of the staff took it home to see how it would look in her house, as a Christmas present for her husband, who would get the say on where and if she should buy it. She's bringing a cheque.

Now here is the technical crap:

Pentax K10D
SMC Pentax DA 12-24 f/4 at 12mm
1/250 @ f/6.7
ISO 100
HAND HELD, SR ON
Shot towards the afternoon sun (top left)

Pixel peep here: All sizes | Elk River, BC-4 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Oh, yeah, the town bought a copy as a gift to our sister city in Japan a couple of years ago. Terrible camera. Lousy lens. Right.

12-20-2013, 10:02 AM   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Guess which of my cameras gets used the most: the A7r that fits right in my jacket or one of my K-mount DSLRs that require a big bag?
I own several "pocketable" cameras* and each is MUCH more compact than the A7r with any of its current line of Sony/Zeiss lenses. About the only A7r combos that I could imagine might be truly pocketable would be some of the short-registration normal and wide-angle rangefinder lenses originally made for Leica M, Leica LTM, Nikon S, or Contax or possibly an adapted pancake (e.g. Pentax-M 40/2.8).


Steve

* Jacket pocket with any of Samsung Infuse 4G (phone), Olympus XA, Canon G2, or FED-2 with Jupiter-12 35/2.8. If I owned the Pentax-M 40/2.8, I might be able to add the Super-Program to the list as well.
12-20-2013, 10:08 AM   #453
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If you are shooting with a 55mm f1.4 on APS-C, I guess you would shoot with an 85 mm f2 on full frame. Those lenses are the same size, at least as long as you have the same registration distance and mount size.
I own lenses that fit both those specs and while both are heavy, the 85 is substantially larger.


Steve
12-20-2013, 10:24 AM   #454
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
a lot is dependent on registration distance and mount size. This is why Leica lenses and some four thirds lenses are relatively small compared to full frame lenses.

If Pentax/Nikon wanted to truly take advantage of APS-C though, they would have designed a specific mount for it.
You totally lost me there. The reason why many rangefinder lenses (not just Leica) are small is because they are (for the most part) non-retrofocus designs that are possible due to the lack of a mirror box. Longer lenses for rangefinder cameras are just as big and nasty as SLR lenses of the same focal length. The smaller mount diameter of the Leica lenses is fairly coincidental and has more to do lack of aperture coupling than registration distance*. Oh, and one other thing, the Leica-M and LTM lenses have no AF mechanism to bulk up the barrels.

As for 4/3 lenses...I don't know that they are particularly small, at least not those made for SLRs.

Example of 85mm lens in a rangefinder mount:

Jupiter-9 85/2 in Contax/Kiev mount


Same physical size as the same lens in M42 mount

I don't have a photo of the Jupiter-12 35/2.8 on the same camera for size comparison (the J-12 is pretty tiny), but I do have the J-12 in LTM mount:

Jupiter-12 35/2 in M39 (LTM) mount


(The Canon P is very close in size to the Kiev 4A in the photo above)

Summary? About the only generalization that can be made regarding lens size is that that it is difficult to make a generalization regarding lens size.


Steve

* Case in point would be the original Asahiflex SLR with a 37mm mount and the same registration distance as today's Pentax SLRs. Ditto for the early Russian Zenit SLRs (39mm) which also have the same registration distance as Pentax. To be complete, I should also mention the M42 Praktica/Pentax mount.


Last edited by stevebrot; 12-20-2013 at 10:40 AM.
12-20-2013, 10:51 AM   #455
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What a coincidence, I wonder the same things.
By the way - and no favors done to Pentax:
Compact Camera Meter
You can go smaller, for example (and that's not the smallest lens):
Compact Camera Meter

With their compact (but not overly small) cameras and compact high quality lenses, you can get a highly portable kit. You can get weather sealing. You can get cold proof. You can take it on the beach, in the rain, or in the fine sands of Afganistan - and it might not fit in your pocket, but it won't break your back while doing so.





It's absolutely clear they were talking about advantages they have today.
It really is a shame there isn't a DA40 Ltd. choice to put on the K3 for your little comparison. It just so happens I got my K3 Tuesday night (a surprise, no less) and my only two DA lenses are the DA40/2.8 Limited that I bought with the K-01 and the DA55~300.
  1. My last dSLR was the K10D, so I am SHOCKED at how tiny the K3 is - I really need to get my head around the MX-like experience. Coming from K-body film cameras and K manual lenses the K3 is almost so small it is uncomfortable for my size 10's.
    1. But it isn't
  2. If I want a true pocket camera I use an XA or a Q/01. Granted, I'm a preppy and at age 58 I still wear baggy khaki's and button down shirts everywhere except in a canoe (even hiking), so I have legitimate pockets to pocket things in.
    1. In June I carried my Q/01 and an extra battery through TSA. In my pocket.
  3. But you're good. Not boriscleto'ed™
    1. Whatever. Nothing new here. Like the Hedge Fund guys were in 2009. Rulers of the Universe.

Last edited by monochrome; 12-20-2013 at 12:04 PM.
12-20-2013, 10:57 AM   #456
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Indeed, I can't put a DA 40mm on that site, but here's a good approximation:
Compact Camera Meter


By the way, I can stuff my K-5IIs, the 60-250 (!!!) and all my Limiteds into my old LowePro Nova 1. It's a tight fit, but there's still room for spare battery and card(s), the O-GPS1, my smartphone, its external battery, maybe a charger...
A cheese sandwich won't fit, though
12-20-2013, 11:17 AM   #457
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
You totally lost me there. The reason why many rangefinder lenses (not just Leica) are small is because they are (for the most part) non-retrofocus designs that are possible due to the lack of a mirror box. Longer lenses for rangefinder cameras are just as big and nasty as SLR lenses of the same focal length. The smaller mount diameter of the Leica lenses is fairly coincidental and has more to do lack of aperture coupling than registration distance*. Oh, and one other thing, the Leica-M and LTM lenses have no AF mechanism to bulk up the barrels.

As for 4/3 lenses...I don't know that they are particularly small, at least not those made for SLRs.

Example of 85mm lens in a rangefinder mount:

Jupiter-9 85/2 in Contax/Kiev mount


Same physical size as the same lens in M42 mount

I don't have a photo of the Jupiter-12 35/2.8 on the same camera for size comparison (the J-12 is pretty tiny), but I do have the J-12 in LTM mount:

Jupiter-12 35/2 in M39 (LTM) mount


(The Canon P is very close in size to the Kiev 4A in the photo above)

Summary? About the only generalization that can be made regarding lens size is that that it is difficult to make a generalization regarding lens size.


Steve

* Case in point would be the original Asahiflex SLR with a 37mm mount and the same registration distance as today's Pentax SLRs. Ditto for the early Russian Zenit SLRs (39mm) which also have the same registration distance as Pentax. To be complete, I should also mention the M42 Praktica/Pentax mount.
Sorry. You know more about these things than I do. I just know that Falk said that lenses are smallest when they have a focal length around the registration distance. That's why I assumed that Pentax could do a 40mm pancake, while there is a 16mm f2.8 pancake for the e mount. But it probably has to do with other factors in lens construction than I am aware of.
12-20-2013, 11:21 AM   #458
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Indeed, I can't put a DA 40mm on that site, but here's a good approximation:
Compact Camera Meter


By the way, I can stuff my K-5IIs, the 60-250 (!!!) and all my Limiteds into my old LowePro Nova 1. It's a tight fit, but there's still room for spare battery and card(s), the O-GPS1, my smartphone, its external battery, maybe a charger...
A cheese sandwich won't fit, though
That' what I have been trying to find. A pack with room for all my gear, and a cheese sandwich. What good is a camera bag if you still have to carry your lunch in a separate bag?

12-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That' what I have been trying to find. A pack with room for all my gear, and a cheese sandwich. What good is a camera bag if you still have to carry your lunch in a separate bag?
Camera gear and a cheese sandwich in the same bag? I don't think so. I'm too worried about cross-contamination.

Not between the camera and the cheese sandwich, mind you, but between this thread and . . . um, you know, THAT one.
12-20-2013, 01:04 PM   #460
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Camera gear and a cheese sandwich in the same bag? I don't think so. I'm too worried about cross-contamination.

Not between the camera and the cheese sandwich, mind you, but between this thread and . . . um, you know, THAT one.
Oh dear, that thread is contaminating the whole forum. It's going to be like the egg plant that ate Chicago. Everyone is under-estimating it's potential.
12-20-2013, 02:07 PM   #461
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I wish the cheese sandwich OP would come back and post again. He was fun. Maybe the K3 . . . . . .
12-20-2013, 02:12 PM   #462
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Guys, we really should keep the fun confined to, you know, THAT thread.
The premise and on-topic content of this thread actually have merit.
12-21-2013, 12:31 AM   #463
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There is a ''ricehigh'' in disguise here? To me, some post looks very similar.

I don't have a problem with different points of view, when they are supported by valid arguments. but this seems not to be this case.

I like, for example, Canon 6D, but I will not change Pentax for this, for several reasons. And I would not tell what a crappy cameras are Pentax, because there is another one in the Universe, and because Pentax cameras are not crappy. Every camera in the world has his own drawbacks. So, I don't understand Mr. Clavius. He is loosing his time and energy, and also ours. And the 1000$ question is: Why?
12-21-2013, 12:53 AM   #464
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
There is a ''ricehigh'' in disguise here? To me, some post looks very similar.

I don't have a problem with different points of view, when they are supported by valid arguments. but this seems not to be this case.


I like, for example, Canon 6D, but I will not change Pentax for this, for several reasons. And I would not tell what a crappy cameras are Pentax, because there is another one in the Universe, and because Pentax cameras are not crappy. Every camera in the world has his own drawbacks. So, I don't understand Mr. Clavius. He is loosing his time and energy, and also ours. And the 1000$ question is: Why?
That's what I was thinking too. But maybe we got an early christmas present and the whiny ricehigh-in-disguise finally quit these forums? At least he hasn't been responding lately
12-26-2013, 07:06 AM   #465
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[*]My last dSLR was the K10D, so I am SHOCKED at how tiny the K3 is - I really need to get my head around the MX-like experience. Coming from K-body film cameras and K manual lenses the K3 is almost so small it is uncomfortable for my size 10's.[LIST=1]
]

Maybe you would be more comfortable if you weren't holding it with your feet.
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