Pentax-Ricoh Russia Answers: FF and Ricoh future

derekkite · 10-26-2013, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

One point that should be considered is the difference between what Ricoh thinks is 'good enough' and what Pentax in recent past has thought was 'good enough'.

Pentax releases k-5 with numerous QC issues that need fixed. --> Ricoh releases k-5II that fixes (as much as possible) those issues
Pentax has k-3 ready for showing at Photokina 2012 --> Ricoh is not satisfied with the product and pulls it, takes the next year making it right.
Pentax has a 645dII in development, maybe for release early 2013 --> Ricoh is not satisfied with the product and delays it until it is right.

Those that wish Ricoh to release products NOW, because they are falling behind are neglecting to consider what happens when you release a product that is not ready. Yes, falling behind loses market share. Releasing poor product that has problems also loses market share. Which is worse?

In a marketing driven company products go out the door when marketing thinks they should. In an engineering driven company products go out the door when they are ready. All the whining in the world is not going to get Ricoh to release something before they are ready. Their name is on it. Maybe Hoya-->Pentax was OK releasing something that did not quite meet standards just because they needed a product release, I don't Ricoh-->Pentax is.

I agree, and this is something that makes me more confident. If Hoya hadn't had the release problems with the K-5, which left a stench on the body for a long time, I suspect the Pentax story would be different. Nikon can swallow a terrible buffer in the D7100 and D600 flaws; a tough swallow but they have the depth nonetheless. It would harm Ricoh and the Pentax brand substantially.

kricha6431 · 10-26-2013, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by ogl

?????????? Google
Pay attention!
1. FF will be next year. Not later than Photokina 2014. Maybe, on spring or summer, 2014.
2. New DFA lenses will be offered. New 2.8 zooms will be made.
3. New Limited Zoom will be real.
4. New WR lenses will be launched.
5. K-01 is failed because of design. Mirrorless cameras - Ricoh will offer something new.
6. New 645D will be later. It will be different from 645D. It was plans to launch 645DII this year, but the situation is changed.
7. SMC DA LIMITED are discontinued.

If No, 1 is accurate, what kind of Price are we talking about?

Grokh · 10-26-2013, 03:55 PM

I am in relatively good connectionship to the Pentax Russia. I should say I has been invited to visit the office here in SPb next week. First to take for the test K-3, second to have some discussion. May be I can tell anything additional one, may be no.

But the iXBT Internet-forum which is a sourse for the rumors here in this thread is a famous resource in Russia and I can confirm - sure, the nickname Pentax Russia on the iXBT is a really person from Pentax Russia.

bxf · 10-26-2013, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by thickeyebrow

launch date is 4/1/2014, and it's confirmed

Not bloody likely. 4th of January 2014 is a Saturday

Winder · 10-26-2013, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

All they're good for is rejecting information you don't like.

What I like or don't like has nothing to do with it. I have said repeatedly that I expect a FF body from Ricoh. I hope they release on as soon as possible, but what I want or don't want has nothing to do with it.

**jeffshaddix** · 10-26-2013, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by bxf

Not bloody likely. 4th of January 2014 is a Saturday

Wow, funny on so many levels...

**RobA_Oz** · 10-27-2013, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by kricha6431

If No, 1 is accurate, what kind of Price are we talking about?

Well, the Price will be Right, of course.

Unless we're talking about Alan, Lloyd or Katie, in which case we'll get it for a song. Or if it's Vincent, it'll be a horror story.

thibs · 10-27-2013, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by Winder

There is a lot more to gain from MF mirrorless than from APS-C. Removing the huge mirror box and OVF seriously reduces size. MF shooters don't need 8fps or D4 AF tracking. CDAF is more than fast enough for MF.

Sure but CDAF on a big/huge CCD?
Or they'd go CMOS but who'd produce such a CMOS ?

thibs · 10-27-2013, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by kenafein

Great news, if they make something new and interesting and aren't just playing catch up. Filterless AA is a great start. I hope this technology can't be copied by Sony and others. I'm still not going to believe it until someone beats me over the head with the camera.

I hope the 645DII is mirrorless(K-01 style). Flip out screen is a must, but a view finder is unnecessary(maybe optional to keep costs down).

I expect the opposite, considering the market and the price: VF but no moving screen (not that I'd dislike it...)

Mr. A.S. · 10-27-2013, 03:14 AM

Here that I understood from this forum:
In November-2013 I will come into shop B&H and I will look at Pentax K-3. If this camera is as is pleasant in my hands as Pentax K-30, I will buy it. Then I will read again Pentaxforums and when there will be in shop B&H a new camera Pentax with a full frame, at first at it I will look.
Then I will wait its completions and modification, approximately such as Pentax K-5... K-5ii... K-5iis... K-3, and only then I will buy full frame camera Pentax.

**David** · 10-27-2013, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Mr. A.S.

Then I will wait its completions and modification, approximately such as Pentax K-5... K-5ii... K-5iis... K-3, and only then I will buy full frame camera Pentax.

Thank you Mr A. S. that is one of the most sensible statements I have read on this forum for quite a while.

shiner · 10-27-2013, 07:03 PM

Well, I can't WAIT for my K-3. Can't you guys get excited about anything?

**RobA_Oz** · 10-27-2013, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by shiner

Well, I can't WAIT for my K-3. Can't you guys get excited about anything?

Let's just say I'm keenly interested in the arrival of my K-3. I save excitement for things of a more personal nature.

**jpzk** · 10-27-2013, 07:51 PM

This whole thread "sounds" very weird as if Russia is supposed to know everything before we all do ??

mattdm · 10-27-2013, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by bvg

To be precise, that is a personal opinion of the Russian representative, no info from the company.

And I don't see any particular reason to expect that the Russian arm of the company is any more in the loop than the US one -- which is to say, not very. I don't know how things have changed with Ricoh, but for the past decade it's been clear that Pentax Japan holds all the engineering and design close, let alone future plans, while the regional subsidiaries are basically just distributors.

So, I'm not saying this isn't true, but I'm also taking it with a huge grain of salt.

10-27-2013, 07:51 PM	#149
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251	This whole thread "sounds" very weird as if Russia is supposed to know everything before we all do ?? Last edited by jpzk; 08-30-2015 at 07:10 PM.

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10-26-2013, 11:57 AM	#136
derekkite Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nelson B.C. Posts: 3,782	Originally posted by jatrax One point that should be considered is the difference between what Ricoh thinks is 'good enough' and what Pentax in recent past has thought was 'good enough'. Pentax releases k-5 with numerous QC issues that need fixed. --> Ricoh releases k-5II that fixes (as much as possible) those issues Pentax has k-3 ready for showing at Photokina 2012 --> Ricoh is not satisfied with the product and pulls it, takes the next year making it right. Pentax has a 645dII in development, maybe for release early 2013 --> Ricoh is not satisfied with the product and delays it until it is right. Those that wish Ricoh to release products NOW, because they are falling behind are neglecting to consider what happens when you release a product that is not ready. Yes, falling behind loses market share. Releasing poor product that has problems also loses market share. Which is worse? In a marketing driven company products go out the door when marketing thinks they should. In an engineering driven company products go out the door when they are ready. All the whining in the world is not going to get Ricoh to release something before they are ready. Their name is on it. Maybe Hoya-->Pentax was OK releasing something that did not quite meet standards just because they needed a product release, I don't Ricoh-->Pentax is. I agree, and this is something that makes me more confident. If Hoya hadn't had the release problems with the K-5, which left a stench on the body for a long time, I suspect the Pentax story would be different. Nikon can swallow a terrible buffer in the D7100 and D600 flaws; a tough swallow but they have the depth nonetheless. It would harm Ricoh and the Pentax brand substantially.

10-26-2013, 01:40 PM	#137
kricha6431 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Silsbee, TX Posts: 91	Originally posted by ogl ?????????? Google Pay attention! 1. FF will be next year. Not later than Photokina 2014. Maybe, on spring or summer, 2014. 2. New DFA lenses will be offered. New 2.8 zooms will be made. 3. New Limited Zoom will be real. 4. New WR lenses will be launched. 5. K-01 is failed because of design. Mirrorless cameras - Ricoh will offer something new. 6. New 645D will be later. It will be different from 645D. It was plans to launch 645DII this year, but the situation is changed. 7. SMC DA LIMITED are discontinued. If No, 1 is accurate, what kind of Price are we talking about?

10-26-2013, 03:55 PM	#138
Grokh Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: St.-Petersburg Photos: Albums Posts: 267	I am in relatively good connectionship to the Pentax Russia. I should say I has been invited to visit the office here in SPb next week. First to take for the test K-3, second to have some discussion. May be I can tell anything additional one, may be no. But the iXBT Internet-forum which is a sourse for the rumors here in this thread is a famous resource in Russia and I can confirm - sure, the nickname Pentax Russia on the iXBT is a really person from Pentax Russia.

10-26-2013, 04:51 PM	#139
bxf Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Lisbon area Posts: 1,660	Originally posted by thickeyebrow launch date is 4/1/2014, and it's confirmed Not bloody likely. 4th of January 2014 is a Saturday

10-26-2013, 05:08 PM	#140
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Kunzite All they're good for is rejecting information you don't like. What I like or don't like has nothing to do with it. I have said repeatedly that I expect a FF body from Ricoh. I hope they release on as soon as possible, but what I want or don't want has nothing to do with it.

10-26-2013, 07:13 PM	#141
jeffshaddix Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,473	Originally posted by bxf Not bloody likely. 4th of January 2014 is a Saturday Wow, funny on so many levels...

10-27-2013, 12:13 AM	#142
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by kricha6431 If No, 1 is accurate, what kind of Price are we talking about? Well, the Price will be Right, of course. Unless we're talking about Alan, Lloyd or Katie, in which case we'll get it for a song. Or if it's Vincent, it'll be a horror story.

10-27-2013, 01:30 AM	#143
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Winder There is a lot more to gain from MF mirrorless than from APS-C. Removing the huge mirror box and OVF seriously reduces size. MF shooters don't need 8fps or D4 AF tracking. CDAF is more than fast enough for MF. Sure but CDAF on a big/huge CCD? Or they'd go CMOS but who'd produce such a CMOS ?

10-27-2013, 01:32 AM	#144
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by kenafein Great news, if they make something new and interesting and aren't just playing catch up. Filterless AA is a great start. I hope this technology can't be copied by Sony and others. I'm still not going to believe it until someone beats me over the head with the camera. I hope the 645DII is mirrorless(K-01 style). Flip out screen is a must, but a view finder is unnecessary(maybe optional to keep costs down). I expect the opposite, considering the market and the price: VF but no moving screen (not that I'd dislike it...)

10-27-2013, 03:14 AM	#145
Mr. A.S. Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 401	Here that I understood from this forum: In November-2013 I will come into shop B&H and I will look at Pentax K-3. If this camera is as is pleasant in my hands as Pentax K-30, I will buy it. Then I will read again Pentaxforums and when there will be in shop B&H a new camera Pentax with a full frame, at first at it I will look. Then I will wait its completions and modification, approximately such as Pentax K-5... K-5ii... K-5iis... K-3, and only then I will buy full frame camera Pentax.

10-27-2013, 05:48 PM	#146
David Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sandy Bay, Tasmania, Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 347	Originally posted by Mr. A.S. Then I will wait its completions and modification, approximately such as Pentax K-5... K-5ii... K-5iis... K-3, and only then I will buy full frame camera Pentax. Thank you Mr A. S. that is one of the most sensible statements I have read on this forum for quite a while.

10-27-2013, 07:03 PM	#147
shiner Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N GA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,127	Well, I can't WAIT for my K-3. Can't you guys get excited about anything?

10-27-2013, 07:44 PM	#148
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,197	Originally posted by shiner Well, I can't WAIT for my K-3. Can't you guys get excited about anything? Let's just say I'm keenly interested in the arrival of my K-3. I save excitement for things of a more personal nature.

10-27-2013, 07:56 PM	#150
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by bvg To be precise, that is a personal opinion of the Russian representative, no info from the company. And I don't see any particular reason to expect that the Russian arm of the company is any more in the loop than the US one -- which is to say, not very. I don't know how things have changed with Ricoh, but for the past decade it's been clear that Pentax Japan holds all the engineering and design close, let alone future plans, while the regional subsidiaries are basically just distributors. So, I'm not saying this isn't true, but I'm also taking it with a huge grain of salt.