Pentax-Ricoh Russia Answers: FF and Ricoh future

**monochrome** · 12-19-2013, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

The biggest "problem" Pentax needs to fix is the lack of fast primes

I just don't understand why we need all that glass for f/1.4 to shoot on a noise-free APSc sensor.

Now if they release a FF, sure, I get it. 24/2; 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 105/2.8, 135/2.5 -- 28~70 and 70~200/2.8 constant.

But what's wrong with 1.8 or 2.4 in a prime designed intentionally to be compact and refined? If you want fast and big you can get that now from lots of manufacturers.

**Rondec** · 12-19-2013, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

I just don't understand why we need all that glass for f/1.4 to shoot on a noise-free APSc sensor.

Now if they release a FF, sure, I get it. 24/2; 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 105/2.8, 135/2.5 -- 28~70 and 70~200/2.8 constant.

But what's wrong with 1.8 or 2.4 in a prime designed intentionally to be compact and refined? If you want fast and big you can get that now from lots of manufacturers.

I agree. At this point, Pentax offers 14mm f2.8, 31 f1.8, 43 f1.8, 50 f1.4, 50 f1.8, 55 f1.4, 77mm f1.8 and 100mm and 200mm f2.8. With most of those lenses being relatively sharp wide open, I just don't see that getting a half stop better from f1.8 to f1.4 helps a whole lot. Many of the lenses could benefit from modern coatings, as that would improve PF, but honestly, it is so easy to fix in post that I would be unlikely to purchase HD FA limiteds.

LFLee · 12-19-2013, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

The biggest "problem" Pentax needs to fix is the lack of fast primes. The big fat fast primes that were (miraculously) affordable, enticed me to join Pentax. (That was one of the reasons, at least.) They completely negated all aspects of that. And judging my the price and availability of those historic primes on the used market, there are a lot of users that agree with me. They get sold for astounding prices and very quickly as well. They're going to have to pry mine from my cold dead hands. Slow zooms in increasingly overlapping focal lengths is all they're developing right now.

Sigma solve this for them, 18-35 f1.8.
Samyang also chip in with 10mm f2.8.

Problem solved.

lytrytyr · 12-19-2013, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

a noise-free APSc sensor.

If you can ever get one of those to work at room temperature,
I'd sure like to hear about it!

ElJamoquio · 12-19-2013, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

I just don't understand why we need all that glass for f/1.4 to shoot on a noise-free APSc sensor.

Huh? For me, the bigger the sensor, the smaller the glass I require/desire.

**Rondec** · 12-19-2013, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Huh? For me, the bigger the sensor, the smaller the glass I require/desire.

You repeat this a lot, but I don't understand it. If you are shooting with a 55mm f1.4 on APS-C, I guess you would shoot with an 85 mm f2 on full frame. Those lenses are the same size, at least as long as you have the same registration distance and mount size.

If Pentax had wanted to make a smaller mount that was only compatible with APS-C and shorten the registration distance, then their lenses would be smaller for equivalent lenses, for what it is worth.

ElJamoquio · 12-19-2013, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

You repeat this a lot, but I don't understand it.

Dr. Camera: APS-C lenses aren't smaller, aren't lighter, and aren't cheaper.

Zygonyx · 12-19-2013, 01:53 PM

This doesn't apply to Pentax glass... whenever comparable to other systems.

For example the DA line is significantly lighter than APS-C equivalent by Canikon :

**Rondec** · 12-19-2013, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Dr. Camera: APS-C lenses aren't smaller, aren't lighter, and aren't cheaper.

Do you truly understand this? A 50-135 f2.8 lens on APS-C is the same as a 70-200 f4 lens on full frame. And they are the same size. Certainly there is no decrease in size, but it's not like full frame lenses are lighter by any means. In addition, as I said in my previous post, a lot is dependent on registration distance and mount size. This is why Leica lenses and some four thirds lenses are relatively small compared to full frame lenses.

If Pentax/Nikon wanted to truly take advantage of APS-C though, they would have designed a specific mount for it.

lytrytyr · 12-19-2013, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

You repeat this a lot, but I don't understand it.

It certainly happens at wide angles.

Compare the DA 14/2.8 (84 x 69 mm, 420 gm)
with the FA 20/2.8 (70 x 44 mm, 255 gm).

There is a similar comparison
between the DA and F fisheye zooms.

kenyee · 12-19-2013, 07:23 PM

And Pentax lenses are smaller but edge performance isn't as good as the stuff Nikon is releasing nowadays.
The Sigma 35/1.4 is excellent even at the edges...but compare its size to the old slower FA35.

ElJamoquio · 12-19-2013, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

This doesn't apply to Pentax glass... whenever comparable to other systems.

For example the DA line is significantly lighter than APS-C equivalent by Canikon :

In the range I'm interested in (Generally full-frame F/2-F/2.8.... sometimes F/1.4, F/4), it's pretty much always FF advantage.

Class A · 12-19-2013, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

For example the DA line is significantly lighter than APS-C equivalent by Canikon :

Who performed this analysis?

Zygonyx · 12-20-2013, 01:09 AM

Ricoh imaging :
5Reasons to choose PENTAX | RICOH IMAGING

Clavius · 12-20-2013, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Ricoh imaging :
5Reasons to choose PENTAX | RICOH IMAGING

The first two lines of that link says something special:

Quote:

Purchasing an SLR camera is a big decision.
You want a camera to carry with you everywhere, not just on special occasions,
and you want to capture in an image all the things you feel.
Why not try a PENTAX camera as your own special partner.

"SLR" and "a camera that you carry with you everywhere" are two very different things. They may have placed that there intentionally, hinting at future developements. Or they may really actually think a K-mount DSLR with lens is pocketable.

12-19-2013, 11:53 AM	#426
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Huh? For me, the bigger the sensor, the smaller the glass I require/desire. You repeat this a lot, but I don't understand it. If you are shooting with a 55mm f1.4 on APS-C, I guess you would shoot with an 85 mm f2 on full frame. Those lenses are the same size, at least as long as you have the same registration distance and mount size. If Pentax had wanted to make a smaller mount that was only compatible with APS-C and shorten the registration distance, then their lenses would be smaller for equivalent lenses, for what it is worth. Last edited by Rondec; 12-19-2013 at 12:03 PM.

12-19-2013, 01:53 PM	#428
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	This doesn't apply to Pentax glass... whenever comparable to other systems. For example the DA line is significantly lighter than APS-C equivalent by Canikon : Last edited by Zygonyx; 12-19-2013 at 02:02 PM.

12-19-2013, 03:02 PM	#430
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by Rondec You repeat this a lot, but I don't understand it. It certainly happens at wide angles. Compare the DA 14/2.8 (84 x 69 mm, 420 gm) with the FA 20/2.8 (70 x 44 mm, 255 gm). There is a similar comparison between the DA and F fisheye zooms. Last edited by lytrytyr; 12-19-2013 at 03:07 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Ricoh announces company name change - no more Pentax Ricoh Imaging, just Ricoh.	rawr	Pentax News and Rumors	528	10-28-2013 04:39 PM
Hoodie Pentax from Russia	ogl	General Talk	20	06-02-2012 06:31 AM
RICOH Establishes PENTAX RICOH IMAGING COMPANY, LTD.	Adam	Homepage & Official Pentax News	20	10-13-2011 03:31 AM
Need Answers Quick! Good price for Pentax-M 50mm f1.7?	LadyRo	Pentax SLR Lens Discussion	5	06-03-2010 04:25 AM
Pentax France answers 3 important questions	Gus	Pentax News and Rumors	46	03-18-2010 10:26 AM

12-19-2013, 07:16 AM	#421
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Clavius The biggest "problem" Pentax needs to fix is the lack of fast primes I just don't understand why we need all that glass for f/1.4 to shoot on a noise-free APSc sensor. Now if they release a FF, sure, I get it. 24/2; 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 105/2.8, 135/2.5 -- 28~70 and 70~200/2.8 constant. But what's wrong with 1.8 or 2.4 in a prime designed intentionally to be compact and refined? If you want fast and big you can get that now from lots of manufacturers.

12-19-2013, 08:23 AM	#422
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by monochrome I just don't understand why we need all that glass for f/1.4 to shoot on a noise-free APSc sensor. Now if they release a FF, sure, I get it. 24/2; 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 105/2.8, 135/2.5 -- 28~70 and 70~200/2.8 constant. But what's wrong with 1.8 or 2.4 in a prime designed intentionally to be compact and refined? If you want fast and big you can get that now from lots of manufacturers. I agree. At this point, Pentax offers 14mm f2.8, 31 f1.8, 43 f1.8, 50 f1.4, 50 f1.8, 55 f1.4, 77mm f1.8 and 100mm and 200mm f2.8. With most of those lenses being relatively sharp wide open, I just don't see that getting a half stop better from f1.8 to f1.4 helps a whole lot. Many of the lenses could benefit from modern coatings, as that would improve PF, but honestly, it is so easy to fix in post that I would be unlikely to purchase HD FA limiteds.

12-19-2013, 08:48 AM	#423
LFLee Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Southern California Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,292	Originally posted by Clavius The biggest "problem" Pentax needs to fix is the lack of fast primes. The big fat fast primes that were (miraculously) affordable, enticed me to join Pentax. (That was one of the reasons, at least.) They completely negated all aspects of that. And judging my the price and availability of those historic primes on the used market, there are a lot of users that agree with me. They get sold for astounding prices and very quickly as well. They're going to have to pry mine from my cold dead hands. Slow zooms in increasingly overlapping focal lengths is all they're developing right now. Sigma solve this for them, 18-35 f1.8. Samyang also chip in with 10mm f2.8. Problem solved.

12-19-2013, 08:50 AM	#424
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by monochrome a noise-free APSc sensor. If you can ever get one of those to work at room temperature, I'd sure like to hear about it!

12-19-2013, 09:07 AM	#425
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by monochrome I just don't understand why we need all that glass for f/1.4 to shoot on a noise-free APSc sensor. Huh? For me, the bigger the sensor, the smaller the glass I require/desire.

12-19-2013, 01:43 PM	#427
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Rondec You repeat this a lot, but I don't understand it. Dr. Camera: APS-C lenses aren't smaller, aren't lighter, and aren't cheaper.

12-19-2013, 02:25 PM	#429
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Dr. Camera: APS-C lenses aren't smaller, aren't lighter, and aren't cheaper. Do you truly understand this? A 50-135 f2.8 lens on APS-C is the same as a 70-200 f4 lens on full frame. And they are the same size. Certainly there is no decrease in size, but it's not like full frame lenses are lighter by any means. In addition, as I said in my previous post, a lot is dependent on registration distance and mount size. This is why Leica lenses and some four thirds lenses are relatively small compared to full frame lenses. If Pentax/Nikon wanted to truly take advantage of APS-C though, they would have designed a specific mount for it.

12-19-2013, 07:23 PM	#431
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	And Pentax lenses are smaller but edge performance isn't as good as the stuff Nikon is releasing nowadays. The Sigma 35/1.4 is excellent even at the edges...but compare its size to the old slower FA35.

12-19-2013, 07:52 PM	#432
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Zygonyx This doesn't apply to Pentax glass... whenever comparable to other systems. For example the DA line is significantly lighter than APS-C equivalent by Canikon : In the range I'm interested in (Generally full-frame F/2-F/2.8.... sometimes F/1.4, F/4), it's pretty much always FF advantage.

12-19-2013, 10:27 PM	#433
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Zygonyx For example the DA line is significantly lighter than APS-C equivalent by Canikon : Who performed this analysis?

12-20-2013, 01:09 AM	#434
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Ricoh imaging : 5Reasons to choose PENTAX \| RICOH IMAGING

12-20-2013, 01:51 AM	#435
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by Zygonyx Ricoh imaging : 5Reasons to choose PENTAX \| RICOH IMAGING The first two lines of that link says something special: Quote: Purchasing an SLR camera is a big decision. You want a camera to carry with you everywhere, not just on special occasions, and you want to capture in an image all the things you feel. Why not try a PENTAX camera as your own special partner. "SLR" and "a camera that you carry with you everywhere" are two very different things. They may have placed that there intentionally, hinting at future developements. Or they may really actually think a K-mount DSLR with lens is pocketable.