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11-06-2013, 08:18 AM - 1 Like   #466
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I rarely open my aperture wider than f/5.6 to shoot. But I always focus wide open. No matter what light conditions, with my current visual acuity, f/1.4 beats f/2.8 beats f/4. That's just me.

If I decide to buy the lens I'll probably perma-stick it on my K-01 anyway so it won't matter and put the KFA35/2 on the K3.

I remain incredulous at the propensity of some people to find some kind of damning fault with every single thing Pentax does, no matter what it is, no matter what they do. It's as if they want Pentax to fail or something and they Just. Can't. Stand. the idea that Ricoh brings something good to the table.

When Ricoh releases a competent FF camera I hope RICOH is emblazoned on the bottom, the rear LCD and a little tiny RICOH silkscreen is added to the top LCD.

I want to see whether heads explode.


Last edited by monochrome; 11-06-2013 at 10:00 AM.
11-06-2013, 08:21 AM   #467
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Er, I don't think we're given a choice whether to focus wide open or not, on a automatic aperture lens. The camera will always AF wide open. Unless you're manually doing the focusing, at which point you could technically stop down to focus - but that's like an extra button to hold.
11-06-2013, 08:22 AM   #468
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Er, I don't think we're given a choice whether to focus wide open or not, on a automatic aperture lens. The camera will always AF wide open. Unless you're manually doing the focusing, at which point you could technically stop down to focus - but that's like an extra button to hold.
Uh, yeah, that's my point.
11-06-2013, 08:26 AM   #469
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
They're both available right here:

Pentax Autofocus Fixed Focal Length Lenses - KEH.com
Those lenses have been discontinued.
One can buy them used, of course, but there are risks.
And in Europe those lenses rarely show up for sale and are very expensive (and not that good, as it has been mentioned above).

The other ones (Samyang and Voigtländer) are manual focus and I don't want manual focus lenses; APS viewfinders are small and dark (when compared with the one in my Contax RX) and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be (I have started using eyeglasses which makes matters even worse).

R


Last edited by Iberia; 11-06-2013 at 08:30 AM. Reason: typos
11-06-2013, 08:47 AM - 1 Like   #470
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I see things don't really change here. I find it frustrating that so many in this thread are trashing this lens since it doesn't hit THEIR wants. Of course it's not fast since it's a compact size zoom. Of course it doesn't have a large zoom range since IQ is a priority with DA ltds. For many active outdoorsy types this is a perfect lens. It's smallish (really small for a zoom) and it should be considerably better than the kit lens while possibly matching the DA*16-50 at smaller apertures. Combined with WR this is exactly what I want for hiking. My commonly used lenses are DA15, K24, M28, DA40, A50 and DFA100. This doesn't replace all of them since they are fast, long, wide or really small but I'm in a lot of situations where it's not possible to constantly be swapping lenses and this is one of the first compact lenses that can get most of the shots (definitely not the 100mm macro) while hiking. And it's WR which is a big issue when I'm out hiking. I will be buying one of these when I have paid off some recent loans regardless of a projected USD1000ish price. it's definitely at the top of my wish list and way above the FA31/43/77, any other zooms, DA*300, any awesome legacy lenses and pretty much anything else BECAUSE it's perfect for the photos that I take.

Some are right to be concerned about Pentax's future product direction. 5 years ago Pentax had a great opportunity to take a big chunk of the adventure photographer market with their WR bodies and compact awesome primes but now the smaller mirrorless offerings have closed the IQ gap while offering substantially smaller packages with WR. It's becoming more and more difficult to not invest in a 2nd more compact system and this might end up putting the brakes on any new Pentax purchases in my future since I wouldn't use my Pentax stuff as much. Despite the DA ltd's being awesome (incredibly awesome) this brand strategy might appeal to fewer and fewer new customers in the future.
11-06-2013, 09:15 AM   #471
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I rarely open my aperture wider than f/5.6 to shoot. But I always focus wide open. No matter what light conditions, with my current visual acuity, f/1.4 beats f/2.8 beats f/4. That's just me.

If I decide to buy the lens I'll probably perma-stick it on my K-01 anyway so it won't matter and put the K35/2 on the K3.

I remain incredulous at the propensity of some people to find some kind of damning fault with every single thing Pentax does, no matter what it is, no matter what they do. It's as if they want Pentax to fail or something and they Just. Can't. Stand. the idea that Ricoh brings something good to the table.

When Ricoh releases a competent FF camera I hope RICOH is emblazoned on the bottom, the rear LCD and a little tiny RICOH silkscreen is added to the top LCD.

I want to see whether heads explode.
Agreed. This lens is not for me, but that's OK, isn't it? Every lens is a compromise. If I choose to shoot with a DA * 16-50 f2.8, I am choosing a larger, probably more prone to flare lens compared to what I imagine the performance of this lens will be. When I realize that I shoot a lot of landscapes at f8, maybe it would have its place.

Even a lens like the Sigma 18-35 is a compromise. Can you say large? Prone to flare? Only 2x zoom?

It is good that there are many options out there. If camera companies only catered to my individual needs, I think the greater photography community would suffer as a result.
11-06-2013, 09:21 AM   #472
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QuoteOriginally posted by abacus07 Quote
I see things don't really change here. I find it frustrating that so many in this thread are trashing this lens since it doesn't hit THEIR wants. Of course it's not fast since it's a compact size zoom. Of course it doesn't have a large zoom range since IQ is a priority with DA ltds. For many active outdoorsy types this is a perfect lens. It's smallish (really small for a zoom) and it should be considerably better than the kit lens while possibly matching the DA*16-50 at smaller apertures. Combined with WR this is exactly what I want for hiking. My commonly used lenses are DA15, K24, M28, DA40, A50 and DFA100. This doesn't replace all of them since they are fast, long, wide or really small but I'm in a lot of situations where it's not possible to constantly be swapping lenses and this is one of the first compact lenses that can get most of the shots (definitely not the 100mm macro) while hiking. And it's WR which is a big issue when I'm out hiking. I will be buying one of these when I have paid off some recent loans regardless of a projected USD1000ish price. it's definitely at the top of my wish list and way above the FA31/43/77, any other zooms, DA*300, any awesome legacy lenses and pretty much anything else BECAUSE it's perfect for the photos that I take.

Some are right to be concerned about Pentax's future product direction. 5 years ago Pentax had a great opportunity to take a big chunk of the adventure photographer market with their WR bodies and compact awesome primes but now the smaller mirrorless offerings have closed the IQ gap while offering substantially smaller packages with WR. It's becoming more and more difficult to not invest in a 2nd more compact system and this might end up putting the brakes on any new Pentax purchases in my future since I wouldn't use my Pentax stuff as much. Despite the DA ltd's being awesome (incredibly awesome) this brand strategy might appeal to fewer and fewer new customers in the future.
I agree with the first part of the message. I think I will be getting one of these when I have the funds.
11-06-2013, 09:35 AM   #473
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QuoteOriginally posted by abacus07 Quote
Some are right to be concerned about Pentax's future product direction. 5 years ago Pentax had a great opportunity to take a big chunk of the adventure photographer market with their WR bodies and compact awesome primes but now the smaller mirrorless offerings have closed the IQ gap while offering substantially smaller packages with WR. It's becoming more and more difficult to not invest in a 2nd more compact system and this might end up putting the brakes on any new Pentax purchases in my future since I wouldn't use my Pentax stuff as much. Despite the DA ltd's being awesome (incredibly awesome) this brand strategy might appeal to fewer and fewer new customers in the future.
Abacus, I searched a little bit and seems like Fuji and Sony have zero weather sealed lenses, and the m43 as a whole has four (three zooms and one prime). Is there really that many weather sealed lenses? If there are some that I missed, let me know.

Canon has 8-15, 14/2.8 and 17-40 which are relatively small, the rest are rather big. Nikon doesn't want to take a stab at stating which of their lenses are WR -except the big and expensive ones. That means currently Pentax have more compact WR lenses than the rest of the industry combined.

We have
DA 18-55
DA 18-135
DA 16-50 (smaller than 24-70 with FF)
DA 55
DFA 100 WR
DA 20-40
DA 50-200
DA 55-300

We also have
DA 50-135 (equal to having 70-200/4 on FF or the oly 35-100, both are bigger lenses)
DA 60-250 (same size as 70-200/4 but more range)

Just missing an UWA and two more primes imo... DA Lim HD is really a missed opportunity to put in WR (not that they need it anyway I guess, I use DA 40 in the rain all the time)


Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-06-2013 at 09:43 AM.
11-06-2013, 09:58 AM   #474
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
DA 50-135 (equal to having 70-200/4 on FF or the oly 35-100, both are bigger lenses
Looked it up, the Canon 70-200 f/4 is 1.5" longer and 20 grams heavier.
11-06-2013, 10:02 AM   #475
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Nikon doesn't want to take a stab at stating which of their lenses are WR -except the big and expensive ones
I have the Nikon 50mm f1.8; 85mm f1.8; 14-24mm f2.8; 24-120mm f4; 105mm f2.8 macro and the 70-300mm f4.5-5.6 G lenses. They are all WR: at least they all have rubber gaskets on the mount, so I assume they are somewhat sealed against moisture ingress. None of them are particularly compact, though.
11-06-2013, 10:05 AM   #476
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QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
The other ones (Samyang and Voigtländer) are manual focus and I don't want manual focus lenses; APS viewfinders are small and dark (when compared with the one in my Contax RX) and my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be (I have started using eyeglasses which makes matters even worse).
In that case, the FA 35/2 or DA 35/2.4,
and the DA* 55/1.4,
should be viable alternatives.
11-06-2013, 10:09 AM   #477
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
DA Lim HD is really a missed opportunity to put in WR
Maybe not, if the rumor that started this thread turns out to be true.
At least starting with this zoom.
11-06-2013, 10:23 AM   #478
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Abacus, I searched a little bit and seems like Fuji and Sony have zero weather sealed lenses, and the m43 as a whole has four (three zooms and one prime). Is there really that many weather sealed lenses? If there are some that I missed, let me know.

Discounting the top dog Nikon and Canon lenses (which are huge) current Pentax seems to have more compact WR lenses than the rest of the industry combined.

We have
DA 1855
DA 18135
DA 1650 (smaller than 24-70 with FF)
DA 55
DFA 100 WR
DA 2040
DA 50200
DA 55300

We also have
DA 50-135 (equal to having 70-200/4 on FF or the oly 35-100, both are bigger lenses)
DA 60-250 (same size as 70-200/4 but more range)

Just missing an UWA and two more primes imo... DA Lim HD is really a missed opportunity to put in WR (not that they need it anyway I guess, I use DA 40 in the rain all the time)
The 4 new Sony Zeiss lenses are WR I believe - the ones that were intended to pair with the A7/A7R.

For Canon current WR lenses (Based on DW-R tag or Canon description):

EF 16-35/2.8L II USM
EF 17-40/4L USM
EF 24-70/2.8L II USM
EF 24-70/4L USM
EF 24-105/4L IS USM
EF 70-200/4L IS USM
EF 70-200/2.8L IS II USM
EF 70-300/4-5.6L IS USM
EF 200-400/4L IS USM 1.4x Ext
EF 14/2.8L II USM
EF 24/1.4L II USM
EF 50/1.2L USM
EF 200/2L IS USM
EF 300/2.8L IS II USM
EF 400/2.8L IS II USM
EF 400/4 DO IS USM
EF 500/4L IS II USM
EF 600/4L IS II USM
EF 800/5.6L IS USM
Teleconverter 1.4X
Teleconverter 2.0X
19 lenses, 2 tcs
*some lenses will require a front filter for sealing

For Nikon (this is off internet trawling):

Nikkor AF-S 14-24 F2.8 ED
Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm F/2.8 IF-ED
Nikkor AF-S 24-85 F3.5-4.5 VR
Nikkor AF-S 24-120 F/4G ED VR
Nikkor AF-S 28-300mm F/3.5-5.6 ED VR
Nikkor AF-S 50 F1.8G
Nikkor AF-S 70-200mm F/2.8G IF-ED VR
Nikkor AF-S 85mm F/1.4G
Nikkor AF-S 105 F2.8G Micro
Nikkor AF-S 200mm F/2G ED VR II
Nikkor AF-S 200-400mm F/4G ED VR II
Nikkor AF-S 300mm F/2.8G ED-IF VR II
Nikkor AF-S 400mm F/2.8G ED VR
Nikkor AF-S 500mm F/4G ED VR II
Nikkor AF-S 600mm F/4G ED VR
Nikkor PC-E 45mm F/2.8D ED Micro
Nikkor PC-E 85mm F/2.8D Micro
16 lenses

Nikon won't say which lenses are WR, so it's a bit of guesswork based on user experiences. Plus I cannot be sure which is fully sealed, and which just has a gasket.

By comparison - and to expand on your list:

Pentax:

DA* 16-50 F2.8
DA 18-55 F3.5-5.6 WR
DA 18-135 F3.5-5.6 WR
DA 50-200 F4-5.6 WR
DA* 55 F1.4
HD 55-300 F4-5.8 WR
DA* 50-135 F2.8
DA* 60-250 F4
DFA 100 F2.8 WR
DA* 200 F2.8
DA* 300 F4
HD 560 F5.6 AW

And soon, HD 20-40 F2.8-4 WR Ltd
13 lenses

As far as wide to telephoto, we're pretty even with Nikon and Canon. Canon has some nice WR primes - but how WR? I don't know. What we do lack is the 400mm, 500mm, and 800mm to be completely equal.

Last edited by JinDesu; 11-06-2013 at 11:06 AM.
11-06-2013, 10:40 AM   #479
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
As far as wide to telephoto, we're pretty even with Nikon and Canon. Canon has some nice WR primes - but how WR? I don't know. What we do lack is the 400mm, 500mm, and 800mm to be completely equal.
For the most part Pentax's WR options are either smaller, or much more affordable, I guess that's the selling point they're trying to push.

I have Nikon's AFS 50/1.8, 85/1.8, and 35/1.8 as well. They all have gasket at the end, but like said above Nikon refuses to call them sealed lenses. I wont hesitate using the 85 in a rain as there's really almost nowhere for water to get in, but the 50mm and 35mm I'm rather wary about.

In my use case anyway, WR is more about hesitancy to bring the lens / camera with you in less than ideal / possible downpour, and squeamishness to expose them to rain when it does rain.

This imo matters more than the question of whether it will get damaged, which for the most part, it probably won't. I will bring K-5 + DA 20-40 without reservation while D7000 + AFS 35/1.8 I wont be totally sure about. that makes the difference on whether you get the shot or not.

I will enjoy shooting with the Pentax, knowing that it's decently sealed, while with the Nikon I'll keep worrying if I'll be faced with a repair bill when I get home.

Isn't peace of mind worth money these days? IMO this is value.

Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-06-2013 at 10:47 AM.
11-06-2013, 10:57 AM   #480
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
For Nikon (this is off internet trawling):

Nikkor AF-S 14-24 F2.8 ED
Nikkor AF-S 24-70mm F/2.8 IF-ED
Nikkor AF-S 24-120 F/4G ED VR
Nikkor AF-S 28-300mm F/3.5-5.6 ED VR
Nikkor AF-S 50 F1.8G
Nikkor AF-S 70-200mm F/2.8G IF-ED VR
Nikkor AF-S 85mm F/1.4G
Nikkor AF-S 105 F2.8G Micro
Nikkor AF-S 200mm F/2G ED VR II
Nikkor AF-S 200-400mm F/4G ED VR II
Nikkor AF-S 300mm F/2.8G ED-IF VR II
Nikkor AF-S 400mm F/2.8G ED VR
Nikkor AF-S 500mm F/4G ED VR II
Nikkor AF-S 600mm F/4G ED VR
Nikkor PC-E 45mm F/2.8D ED Micro
Nikkor PC-E 85mm F/2.8D Micro
16 lenses

Nikon won't say which lenses are WR, so it's a bit of guesswork based on user experiences. Plus I cannot be sure which is fully sealed, and which just has a gasket.
Also, at a minimum, the 24-85.

I'll have to check the 1.4tc when I get home.

FYI when you say that Pentax is matching Nikon from 'wide to telephoto' you might want to consider that the D600 + 14-24 f/2.8 is similar to the K-3 + 9-16mm f/1.8.
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