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11-06-2013, 10:58 PM   #556
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I do wonder about the DA limited "myth" that needs to be deflated every now and again. There's little doubt that Ricoh is trying to position these lenses as premium lenses with corresponding premium prices that have little relation to manufacturing costs. I would not at all be surprised to learn this lens costs less than $250 to manufacture. Fair enough, they're changing the value proposition of the brand. But it does very little for me as a photographer. I will not buy a lens because it looks cool but because it helps give me the images I want.

I can't wait to see if the DA 20-40 is up to the challenge or merely a cool-looking over-priced poseur.

11-06-2013, 11:23 PM   #557
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Another point here I like seeing, is that after the DA 18-135, this is the first lens released, and was also part of the roadmap. It's been quite a while since a technically "new" lens was released. The DA 18-270 (which I doubt anybody commenting here bought) is a Tamron rebadge so it's not really a Pentax-made lens.

I do hope the other ones (particularly that 100-300 looking one and the 24-70/18-80 that turned from yellow DA* to green DA) are still up for announcement in later months (or years, alright).

Also, that 1.4x TC is WAY OVERDUE :| but the release of this Limited zoom gives me more hope for the other lenses in the Pentax roadmap.
11-07-2013, 12:12 AM   #558
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QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
Image quality will be better than the 18-55 WR. But 1000 USD... for the build and image quality???
That's what you pay for in any lens - build and image quality.
11-07-2013, 12:19 AM   #559
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
The MTF score might be flat as a tack for all you know
I have never seen a zoom lens with a perfect MTF - especially in this focal length, some MTF graphs from zoom lenses look like the person plotting them had a heart attack.


MTF from Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II

11-07-2013, 12:57 AM   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I have never seen a zoom lens with a perfect MTF - especially in this focal length, some MTF graphs from zoom lenses look like the person plotting them had a heart attack.


MTF from Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II
Spaghetti?
11-07-2013, 01:05 AM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Spaghetti?
Noodles, more likely.
11-07-2013, 01:22 AM   #562
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
That's 726 Euro's (what's with the Nikon spam?)
I'd be very, very surprised if this translates to less than 1050 in Europe. Where I live (Spain) I can't envision Pentax selling even a single one of these.
11-07-2013, 01:31 AM   #563
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I wouldn't

11-07-2013, 01:53 AM   #564
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I know, right? Who buys a lens for image quality?
You are free to buy a lens for whatever reason you like, but I wouldn't spend this much money for just an improvement in IQ. If Pentax were offering a $700 18-55/3.5-5.6 lens with great IQ, I wouldn't buy it if I had the standard kit. Now, if they had an f/2.8 lens with a similar coverage for $1000, that would be a different story. Yes, it's a bit more expensive than the slow lens, but suddenly the lens becomes much more versatile. I can use its shallow DOF, I can take better photos with less available light, and I don't need to carry around extra primes or whatever to do it. And - on top of that - it has better image quality, esp if you stop it down to the same apertures.

Also, like I said, I know what I'm paying for. There is a lot of glass in that lens, and glass costs money. Whether you are comfortable carrying the weight around is something else, but at least there is a sense of value. With the 20-40, I feel like I'm paying the salary for the people at Ricoh. And o yeah, they give me a lens to say "thank you".
11-07-2013, 02:10 AM   #565
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What's that saying about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing? Oh, and that other one "buy cheap, buy twice"? Just kidding, of course: we all have our own idea of what constitutes value. Personally, I think 849 is a fair price for this lens. It's certainly not a mass-appeal lens, and it is well-made, and this affects the price, but it is fully in line with the Pentax philosophy of small is beautiful. It's not really a lens that I need for my type of photography, but I do wish it well. If they ever make a 12-24 Limited, I will certainly buy that.
11-07-2013, 02:44 AM   #566
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man! I should unsubscribe from this thread...untill we go past Pentax is doomed...nikon is great...canon would not...pentax is doomed part is over.

but, before that. I'd just say that prize of this lens is great. It is not TOO much, and yet it promises high quality, great performance and that little extra, when it is looking spanking good. Like rest of limiteds.
It is great that there is so many great options for many type of shooting and should I say even lifestyle. SO what is really a problem? You can buy a lens which suites your shooting, what you are willing to carry with you and what will make your goals fulfilled. SO do it.

while you guys are at it, I shall sell some lensees and make some work to be able to buy these babys!

ps. When you use you kit lens or faster zooms and when you need quality and performance, you choose certain focal length for it. wide ends are usually bad. SO you get wider/longer lens to fill that. And choose not to use zoom for that anymore...well now you can(possibly, not tested yet) use zoom for any of it's part and be satisfied for any position(granteds that it is limited quality) as it is like bag of primes. Seem good to me. But pay premium for premium, when you can have almost all of it with other lenses...well that is up to anyone to choose. This thing does not seem to be developed as 'mee too' paggage.
11-07-2013, 02:48 AM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I have never seen a zoom lens with a perfect MTF - especially in this focal length, some MTF graphs from zoom lenses look like the person plotting them had a heart attack.


MTF from Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II
Well starting at 20mm maybe avoids a lot off the distortion and other anomalies in the lens. But for $ 1000 it should be really good.
11-07-2013, 02:49 AM   #568
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The 20-40mm zoom makes sense in the context of the Limited lens series. A dedicated wide-angle at 15mm, a walk-around zoom lens in the middle, and a dedicated portrait lens at 70mm - the combination offers an excellent combination of compact but quality glass. Trying to cover the whole range with zooms would result in more weight or lower quality or speed somewhere, or all three. With focal lengths covered from 24 to 105mm, roughly, the Limited series offers the vast majority of focal lengths most folks ever need. Given that the 20-40mm is all metal made to tight tolerances, has the new HD coating, a lens motor and WR, it was never going to be inexpensive.

I don't see what the fuss is about. You either get the Limited idea and their design philosophy or you don't. There are plenty of alternatives if you don't. OK, a huge caveat: this all depends on the IQ of the new zoom which we don't yet know, but it's quite hard to think it won't be very good.

The niggle which bothers me is whether it still makes sense to sink a lot of money into APS-C-only lenses (on the assumption the 20-40mm is APS-C only). With FF cameras like the D610 or the A7 hovering at only slightly more than the K3, and with high-spec top-quality m43 cameras in the running now too, the photography market has changed a great deal in the past 2-3 years. It's harder to sell something at a premium when there are increasingly tempting alternatives out there. Chances are Pentax itself will be offering one by the end of next year, too.

Maybe Pentax will offer a "little jewel" of a body for the Limited series, too. Something smaller, lighter and differently styled than the K3, less of a workhorse, more of a travel companion. It will be optimized for 24-105mm, with only occasional forays into something longer or larger. It will offer a very clear choice against any new Pentax L1 FF camera. I wouldn't be surprised if they do.
11-07-2013, 02:53 AM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
Nobody expected it to be "cheap" but 850/$1000 is really pushing things a tad.
I saw it and thought maybe 599 tops, couldn't actually believe the RRP is over 800

2 issues
How many people don't have this range covered? (very few I would think in either zooms or combination of primes) - ie there is little demand for such a lens
If it's such a great focal range imagine Canon releasing a 20-40mm f2.8-f4 L, it would get laughed off the market and forums FF or APS-C.

I'm trying to find the posts from Pentax users saying "please Pentax we need a 20-40mm f2.8-f4 limited zoom" I've yet to find one, but can find plenty of other sensible lens requests
I would see no problem with a 2x zoom (it's probably easier to achieve a high performance design and it'll be smaller/lighter) if it were: a) f2.8 (or even f3.5) fixed aperture and b) had a useful focal length range, perhaps 25-50mm (37-75mm equiv.), 18-36mm (27-54mm equiv.) or 50-100mm(75-150 equiv.).
"Standard" focal lengths exist and are universal for a reason...

As far as I know, Canon "L" lenses are supposed to be cost no object, high performance professional lenses.
Pentax has a similar range, the "DA*", but it's restricted to three lenses, and this probaly means that Pentax ins't targeting the "L" market.
Comparing Pentax "Limited" to Canon "L" doesn't make sense.

Pentax DA "Limited" lenses are small, light, well built and as far as I know no QC issues.
But they're also "slow", noisy, and judging from the tests I have seen in measurements and image tests, most achieve good performance but only a few are really outstanding.
I don't think they're as good as my Contaxes.

R
11-07-2013, 03:06 AM   #570
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Another thing about this lens that looks a bit weird to me is the short focus throw - this lens should be able to focus really fast with AF, but for MF it might be difficult to accurately focus at longer distances.

QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
Comparing Pentax "Limited" to Canon "L" doesn't make sense.
Depends on which limited lenses you are referring to the FA31 Vs the EF35mm f/1.4L - in terms of construction and optical quality the FA31 leaves the canon lens for dead. The FA77 Vs the 85mm f/1.2L is a bit harder there is a one stop difference between these two lenses, they both have hideous purple fringing and soft corners at their widest apertures - I'm biased, but the manual focus feel of the FA77 plus the built in hood, compact size and superb optical quality makes it more than a match for the 85L - the only thing going in that lenses favor is the fast f/1.2 aperture.


Pentax K5IIs with the FA77mm f/1.8 Limited @ f/4 + 11mm extension tube.

Last edited by Digitalis; 11-07-2013 at 03:15 AM.
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