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11-07-2013, 04:47 AM   #586
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QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
When I buy into a system I expect it's manufacturer to provide an adequate lens lineup.
Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for photographers to complain whenever Pentax gives birth to yet another an awkward focal length or zoom range when there are still important lenses missing from the lineup…

R
The only thing missing in the pentax lineup, based on their vision, is a true WR normal (FA 31 limited WR) and a 35mm equiv WR normal (24mm limited WR, which has been somewhat fulfilled by this lens). A person's vision of what is complete may not match Ricoh's; adequate is a subjective term I guess.

Pentax has shown through the recent lens releases (DA15, DA 100 WR, DA 60-250, DA 20-40) that they're not interested in playing wide aperture game, they want to offer value. This is the same strategy that Apple computing department has (on horsepower and price). If you want those kind of lenses, other systems are better (and generally bigger)

Btw Iberia, I saw your site, great street work, I really envy you I thought you'd be the kind of person that would really welcome this lens.


Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-07-2013 at 04:53 AM.
11-07-2013, 05:05 AM   #587
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QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
When I buy into a system I expect it's manufacturer to provide an adequate lens lineup.
Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for photographers to complain whenever Pentax gives birth to yet another an awkward focal length or zoom range when there are still important lenses missing from the lineup…

R
What is important?
11-07-2013, 05:08 AM   #588
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Let's not forget the current rumors of the "18-70 f/2.8" (corresponding to the standard range "DA Zoom" on the roadmap). If they're to be believed, it would be the polar opposite of this lens:

18-70 f/2.8: Wide zoom range, fast constant aperture, (presumably) huge
20-40 Limited: Narrow zoom range, moderate variable aperture, small

If it has WR and DC, seems to me like it's a perfectly paired offering, a lens for those who desire the Limited design philosophy of classic build and high IQ in a small package, and a lens for those who want high speed and large zoom range regardless of size. Certainly more choice than that of Canikon's current APS-C lineup.
11-07-2013, 05:13 AM   #589
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
The only thing missing in the pentax lineup, based on their vision, is a true WR normal (FA 31 limited WR) and a 35mm equiv WR normal (24mm limited WR, which has been somewhat fulfilled by this lens). A person's vision of what is complete may not match Ricoh's; adequate is a subjective term I guess.

Pentax has shown through the recent lens releases (DA15, DA 100 WR, DA 60-250, DA 20-40) that they're not interested in playing wide aperture game, they want to offer value. This is the same strategy that Apple computing department has (on horsepower and price). If you want those kind of lenses, other systems are better (and generally bigger)

Btw Iberia, I saw your site, great street work, I really envy you I thought you'd be the kind of person that would really welcome this lens.
Thanks…I miss those photo-travel days a lot, so envy myself as much as you do.
For over a decade I shot most of my pictures with a 35mm and an 80-200mm (I also carried a 25mm and a 50mm in the bag) so I would much rather have a 25-50mm DA — 60mm is too wide for a short tele.
I don't really like zoom for street work but I have recently started shooting book as a side job and use a Tamron 28-75mm for that.

To be honest I don't care or wish for a Ricœntax "vision"; all I want is for them to produce f2.8/19mm and especially f2/24mm (28mm & 35mm equiv.) DA primes.

R

11-07-2013, 05:22 AM   #590
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QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
Thanks…I miss those photo-travel days a lot, so envy myself as much as you do.
For over a decade I shot most of my pictures with a 35mm and an 80-200mm (I also carried a 25mm and a 50mm in the bag) so I would much rather have a 25-50mm DA — 60mm is too wide for a short tele.
I don't really like zoom for street work but I have recently started shooting book as a side job and use a Tamron 28-75mm for that.

To be honest I don't care or wish for a Ricœntax "vision"; all I want is for them to produce f2.8/19mm and especially f2/24mm (28mm & 35mm equiv.) DA primes.

R
Yay, fellow Tamron 28-75 user I'm a big fan of that lens, both in APSC and FF.

I think what you want just doesnt match with Ricoh's vision. If you want those lenses today you'll be better served with FF. Before a 19mm/2.8 and 24/2 APSC comes, IMO Pentax FF will come first (lots say next year, I'm rather skeptical). Sigma has actually fulfilled this hole with a great performing 18-35/1.8, but that lens is hugeeee.

Or if you don't like to wait, just get Canikon FF and get a 28 and 35mm prime(they have great primes too), and keep some of your pentax setup. A used 5D is just $500 today, and the 28 / 35 prime is $250 each.

If only we can mount the D800 sensor on the K-3 eh?
11-07-2013, 05:32 AM   #591
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Seems to me a lot of Pentax users are buying Tamron glass, I think that says something about the Pentax line up
I've no problems with a WR limited zoom, but they could have come up with something a bit more interesting
11-07-2013, 05:49 AM   #592
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What is important?
In the film days one would have a large selection of primes: 15mm, 16mm, 20mm, 24mm, fast and not so fast 28mm, 28mm PC, fast and not so fast 35mm, 35mm PC, 45mm, fast and not so fast 50mm, 50 or 60mm MACRO, fast and not so fast 85mm, 100mm, 100mm MACRO, 135mm, etc.

Nowadays Pentax offers the following DA focals: 22,5mm, gap, slow 31,5mm, gap, fast and not so fast 52,5mm, 52,5mm MACRO, 60mm, 75mm, fast 82,5mm, fast and not so fast 105mm, gap, 150mm MACRO, etc.
And some full frame legacy FA lenses: fast 46,5mm LTD, fast 52,5mm, fast 64,5mm LTD, fast 115,mm LTD.

I understand if Ricśntax chooses not to make a PC lens and not to provide fast and not so fast versions of the 24mm, the 28mm, the 35mm…but these lenses 3 lenses are, in my view, very important primes that cannot be missing from a lineup (tehy don't have to be Limiteds).

On the zoom side I think we could really use a f4/50-135mm (75-202,5mm equiv.) and a f4/17-55mm (25,5-82,5mm equiv.); both lenses can be made small, reasonably light and still provide high performance.

As a side note, fixed aperture is important for those of us who shoot in manual mode.

R
11-07-2013, 06:00 AM   #593
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
Yay, fellow Tamron 28-75 user I'm a big fan of that lens, both in APSC and FF.

I think what you want just doesnt match with Ricoh's vision. If you want those lenses today you'll be better served with FF. Before a 19mm/2.8 and 24/2 APSC comes, IMO Pentax FF will come first (lots say next year, I'm rather skeptical). Sigma has actually fulfilled this hole with a great performing 18-35/1.8, but that lens is hugeeee.

Or if you don't like to wait, just get Canikon FF and get a 28 and 35mm prime(they have great primes too), and keep some of your pentax setup. A used 5D is just $500 today, and the 28 / 35 prime is $250 each.

If only we can mount the D800 sensor on the K-3 eh?
I have very recently replaced my K-r with a K-5ii and I considered going APS with either Nikon (D7000-D7100) or Canon (7d-70d).
But while both manufacturers can provide both fast and slow versions of a 24mm (36mm equiv.) lens I ended up staying with Pentax because I find it's grips the most comfortable, the command layout is more to my liking as are it's customization abilities, and the body is smaller and lighter.
Besides I would lose money when selling my current gear…

The 28-75 is a bit heavy but produces really nice images.

R

11-07-2013, 06:15 AM   #594
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QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
In the film days one would have a large selection of primes: 15mm, 16mm, 20mm, 24mm, fast and not so fast 28mm, 28mm PC, fast and not so fast 35mm, 35mm PC, 45mm, fast and not so fast 50mm, 50 or 60mm MACRO, fast and not so fast 85mm, 100mm, 100mm MACRO, 135mm, etc.

Nowadays Pentax offers the following DA focals: 22,5mm, gap, slow 31,5mm, gap, fast and not so fast 52,5mm, 52,5mm MACRO, 60mm, 75mm, fast 82,5mm, fast and not so fast 105mm, gap, 150mm MACRO, etc.
And some full frame legacy FA lenses: fast 46,5mm LTD, fast 52,5mm, fast 64,5mm LTD, fast 115,mm LTD.

I understand if Ricśntax chooses not to make a PC lens and not to provide fast and not so fast versions of the 24mm, the 28mm, the 35mm…but these lenses 3 lenses are, in my view, very important primes that cannot be missing from a lineup (tehy don't have to be Limiteds).

On the zoom side I think we could really use a f4/50-135mm (75-202,5mm equiv.) and a f4/17-55mm (25,5-82,5mm equiv.); both lenses can be made small, reasonably light and still provide high performance.

As a side note, fixed aperture is important for those of us who shoot in manual mode.

R
Totally agree!

When I got interested in Pentax, they had a selection of fast but affordable primes. And they were the very reason for me to join them. Soon after that they lost direction. Or they just went in all kinds of directions, but not all the way. Right now, they value compactness and mobility so much, that they want to sacrifice important features like lens speed for it. But then they don't value that same compactness and mobility enough to sacrifice flange distance and mirrorboxes for it. Then next they tend to value weather proofing and all their current bodies are WR. But then the matching WR lens lineup is very low.

For a consumer, it's very hard to know what Pentax stands for and unclear what they'll do next.
11-07-2013, 06:17 AM   #595
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QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
Exactly, travelling light with this lens as an always on, and expanding maybe with 15mm and 70mm, covering all needs for professional documentation, in harsh environmental conditions, if necessary add an 55mm 1,4 for low light situations, and you are done. The LX was the preferred tool for example for archaeologists in the field, or for aerial reconnaisance (beside the 645). This route is still open to Pentax, no doubt.
Not really, unless Pentax develops a worldwide support network, or ANYTHING in lieu of it, where they cover the costs of getting a part anywhere, used or new, from anywhere in the world to wherever a pro is shooting. We often think the "pro" aspect is only about the equipment, but it's also about the support.

Not to mention, when said war photographer comes home, everything will need to be cleaned (including supposedly sealed lenses because stuff still gets inside) and adjusted. If Pentax can do this with rapid turnaround, not their typical three months (which is also a display that they are not positioning for pro usage), then we might have something.

Since Pentax would have, realistically, only a few pros part of this program (and some claim there already is one, but it's nothing beyond a connected photographer having support), Ricoh eats the costs, it can help push Pentax into these realms.
11-07-2013, 06:34 AM   #596
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QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
When I buy into a system I expect it's manufacturer to provide an adequate lens lineup.
Not necessarily.. that's why there is third-party. If I were to limit myself to only Pentax lens I wouldn't have bothered.

QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for photographers to complain whenever Pentax gives birth to yet another an awkward focal length or zoom range when there are still important lenses missing from the lineup…
Maybe it's reasonable but it doesn't help you at all. I think lots of others are long complaining about the prices and Ricoh instead of reducing prices jacked them up even more. If I would be someone intending to buy lens from them I'd stop complaining immediately otherwise maybe prices would keep increasing (?!). I think our logic is not the same as the logic (if it can be called like that) of Pentax/Ricoh.
If I were Ricoh and wanted to gain market share I would fire some people from optic division (management not opticians), hire better ones, make some decent lens (good but not expensive) and sell them at no profit or a mild lost at least until the system gets some traction. Then produce better optics for higher prices and start profits. It's a chicken and egg situation: they can't produce cheap lens because they are selling too few and they can't sell more because they are too expensive. Until someone from Ricoh doesn't break this circle by putting some financial muscle into this I see no end to it. At current products and prices there is NOT ONE lens I would buy from their entire line-up. Fortunately for them others do buy/like them.
11-07-2013, 06:37 AM   #597
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
The only thing missing in the pentax lineup, based on their vision, is a true WR normal (FA 31 limited WR) and a 35mm equiv WR normal (24mm limited WR, which has been somewhat fulfilled by this lens). A person's vision of what is complete may not match Ricoh's; adequate is a subjective term I guess.
A 100-400mm or similar zoom, preferably WR, is also missing.

This would complement the 18-135WR and provide for a 2-lens zoom set-up which is the emerging trend is SLRland (total cost of ownership).
11-07-2013, 06:42 AM   #598
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
A 100-400mm or similar zoom, preferably WR, is also missing.
(...)
Something like that is on the roadmap as "DA Tele Zoom"

11-07-2013, 06:43 AM   #599
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QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
all I want is for them to produce f2.8/19mm and especially f2/24mm (28mm & 35mm equiv.) DA primes.
Not going to happen with this brand.

Pentax primes are pancake or close enough (DA 35 Macro I'm looking at you, same for the 100).

The exception is really the 14mm, with a nod to the 55. Even the DA 35 (super-lightweight compared tot he competition) and the 50/1.8 (same) and the venerable screw-driven FA 50/1.4 (or even the F and FA 1.7's) are all compact compared to the competition.

This is how you design lenses when your brand is IBIS. Pentax routinely maximum wide open aperture in order to get a pancake design. Even the Pentax zooms are relatively compact, like the 18-135 and this new lens we are quibbling about. There's a 20mm f/2.8. Shame about the price.
11-07-2013, 06:44 AM   #600
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Something like that is on the roadmap as "DA Tele Zoom"
On the much revised roadmap, oh yes, I know it is there and long overdue.
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