Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-07-2013, 11:43 AM   #616
Veteran Member
Andi Lo's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,925
QuoteOriginally posted by LFLee Quote
I'm afraid the day of PENTAX being the "best for the buck", "best value" is over.
(you want cheap one? sure, we'll give you plastic wonder 35mm and 50mm...)

I started to miss the PENTAX that is small but with soul company.
Those days were not sustainable. It's crazy to think that you could get FA 43 for $400 new. Were they even making money?

Pentax is still excellent value, but for different reasons today (WR lens and bodies, compact lens and bodies, and this very helpful forum).

I think K-3 and this lens has lots of soul. You can clearly see a group of people worked really hard to create the best they can make, creating these two excellent products just this year. Not a bad thing imo. Unlike ugh, Nikon DF. I see most of the hard work goes to marketing.

(of course we haven't seen a single image from this the 20-40, but believe in Ricoh, in the price tag! )


Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-07-2013 at 11:56 AM.
11-07-2013, 11:49 AM   #617
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,428
Those day made them vulnerable to a hostile takeover (despite the medical business), and ultimately led to their demise.
I wouldn't say "cheap" equals "soul"
11-07-2013, 12:22 PM   #618
Senior Member
Iberia's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 146
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
There is no such thing as a "DA focal"; and you didn't explained why it's important to have those lenses before the "awkward" ones. I'm counting the Limiteds (including the FAs) in the "awkward" category, since they don't have boring focal lengths and apertures.
You are partially right: there's no such thing as a DA focal length, I should have written field of view which, as you surelly know, is different between APS (DA) and full-frame for a given focal length.

What do you mean by "boring" focal lengths and apertures?

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Those gaps are between 15 and 21mm, 21mm to 31mm and 77mm to 100mm, all covered by zooms.
The 21mm has a field of view equivalent to 31,5mm in full-frame.
But I'm sure that althoough some poeple are happy with this focal length sevreal more would rather have something a bit wider (28mm equiv.) or a bit less (35 to 40mm equiv.), probably because they've shot with these fields of view all their lives and are comfortable working with them.

In my opinion zooms are not substitutes to primes and vice-versa.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
By the way, there's a 17-70 f/4.
There is, and apparently it shines in the lab too…
But it's bulky and leaning on the heavy side.

R
11-07-2013, 12:35 PM   #619
Pentaxian
Mistral75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Paris
Posts: 2,781
QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Are there any rumors that the 18-70mm (ish) is going to be a constant f2.8?? That lens would be huge and I would be very surprised if that were the case. I would suspect that it's either a constant f4 or variable aperture.
There are contradictory rumours of the 18-70mm (ish) "DA Zoom" lens being f/2.8 vs. f/2.8-4.

11-07-2013, 12:36 PM   #620
Veteran Member
Andi Lo's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,925
I know it's not exactly equal for various reasons, but for purely DOF purposes, the 24-105mm L from canon is basically a 17-70/2.8. It's a big lens, but not that big, and it's good even wide open.

I suspect an APSC lens of that spec if it is even possible would be bigger, I hope Pentax can do its magic with the upcoming DA zoom though.
11-07-2013, 01:24 PM   #621
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,428
QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
You are partially right: there's no such thing as a DA focal length, I should have written field of view which, as you surelly know, is different between APS (DA) and full-frame for a given focal length.
I usually go by the focal length and the format. Being an APS-C user, "equivalent" focal lengths means nothing to me.

QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
What do you mean by "boring" focal lengths and apertures?
The ones everyone was making, back in film days

QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
The 21mm has a field of view equivalent to 31,5mm in full-frame.
But I'm sure that althoough some poeple are happy with this focal length sevreal more would rather have something a bit wider (28mm equiv.) or a bit less (35 to 40mm equiv.), probably because they've shot with these fields of view all their lives and are comfortable working with them.
There's no way around that, unless you provide all focal lengths from mm to mm. There are 5 possible intermediary values between the 15mm and the 21mm, let's say each in 2 versions - fast and slow; that would make for 10 new lenses

QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
In my opinion zooms are not substitutes to primes and vice-versa.
They are, because in the end what you want is to have a lens of a suitable focal length; and they aren't.
And because of it, and because we're in the last months of 2013, I cannot accept that it's important to have a "full" range of primes, as in the old days, before everything else.

I actually find the "awkward" 20-40 highly desirable, despite not being a prime, despite not being "standard". I like Pentax making "awkward" things, like the Limiteds.

QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
There is, and apparently it shines in the lab too…
But it's bulky and leaning on the heavy side.
It's about the same size as the 16-45 f/4.
11-07-2013, 01:33 PM   #622
Senior Member
Iberia's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 146
"The ones everyone was making, back in film days"…and today, in every other brand but Pentax.
Even in medium format you can find "standard" or "convetional" focal lengths from every manufacturer...

As for zooms being substitutes for primes, although an f2.8/16-50mm can be set to the same field of view of a PK-A 24mm, it's considerably bigger and heavier - I for one wouldn't use one for street work.
Same-same but different?

R
11-07-2013, 01:36 PM   #623
Senior Member
MMVIII's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: EU
Posts: 232
QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
I actually photograph in the medical and research field for two universities. What would you like to know, beyond the fact that we're using the 5DII in both, microscopes are Zeiss and Olympus?

The 5Ds (and they have simple Rebels in most departments) are all under pro/institutional coverage. We keep different ones for the lab use and others for general use. We also have one that is specifically used by myself to document aborted and stillborn fetuses before and after autopsy.

So what point do you need to make?
You getting this impression? Did I ask for something? Anyhow, it might be your generousity to provide me with this information, appreciated! If you want to know something about aerial reconnaissance, the equipment of other university departments, the tools and the experiences there, feel free to ask.

Somehow it's not so straightforward to communicate with you, I actually agreed to your sentiment that Pentax with Ricoh might become a valid provider of tools for use in heavy duty environments, for documentation, which is done in various fields, where I just mentioned some additional scenarios to your war-reporter.

If for these an established dedicated so called pro-service is necessary is up for discussion, but I do think you did get this point. However, our Hasselblads and D800s etc. are the main tools which are in a maintainance cycle, where most of the research in academic institutions is based on short-time project, where new equipment is bought for let's say 3-5 yeras by the directors itself for their fieldwork. Hardly any do or could invest in additional fees for a pro-program. Most end up with D5100, Rebels or even entrance Sony or (some time ago) Olympus DSLRs with Sigma kitzooms.

And most would be better off with Pentax offerings, even without the so called pro-support. Fieldseason is some month a year, plenty of time inbetween for cleaning and maintainance, that might be a difference to the cliche of a traditional news, wedding etc. pro.

Still, Ricoh has some good background in this regard, who knows, maybe that's where they are heading in the end, contracting departments and institutions, I don't think the direction in the development of new equipment would contradict that.

11-07-2013, 03:36 PM   #624
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,428
QuoteOriginally posted by Iberia Quote
"The ones everyone was making, back in film days"…and today, in every other brand but Pentax.
Even in medium format you can find "standard" or "convetional" focal lengths from every manufacturer...

As for zooms being substitutes for primes, although an f2.8/16-50mm can be set to the same field of view of a PK-A 24mm, it's considerably bigger and heavier - I for one wouldn't use one for street work.
Same-same but different?

R
The question is: what are the priorities? Given all information (most if not all of which is unavailable to us), e.g. target price, market demand, R&D effort, R&D time, production capacity - exactly what lenses should they make and in which order?
And should they really make a lens because others have it? Why not something new, something "awkward" and highly desirable?

No doubt they would continue launching "standard" focal lengths (both zooms and primes); but that can't be all. It's Pentax, and Pentax is anything but boring.

I never claimed a zoom is identical replacement to a prime; there are tradeoffs with either of them. I happen to like primes in most situations; however, I believe it's incorrect to consider primes more important than zooms.
11-07-2013, 03:53 PM   #625
Senior Member
Iberia's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 146
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The question is: what are the priorities? Given all information (most if not all of which is unavailable to us), e.g. target price, market demand, R&D effort, R&D time, production capacity - exactly what lenses should they make and in which order?
And should they really make a lens because others have it? Why not something new, something "awkward" and highly desirable?

No doubt they would continue launching "standard" focal lengths (both zooms and primes); but that can't be all. It's Pentax, and Pentax is anything but boring.

I never claimed a zoom is identical replacement to a prime; there are tradeoffs with either of them. I happen to like primes in most situations; however, I believe it's incorrect to consider primes more important than zooms.
I see lenses as tools (no more and no less than a screwdriver), not objects of desire.
But I agree that Ricœntax is running a business and from that perspective it's probably wiser to target LTD collectors or whichever niche is more lucrative for the company…

By the way, I never said that primes were more important that zooms, it's just that in Pentax's lineup there are so many of the latter…allthough none so far was of the "luxurious" type.

R
11-07-2013, 04:09 PM   #626
Banned




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NY/Germany
Posts: 1,183
QuoteOriginally posted by MMVIII Quote
You getting this impression? Did I ask for something? Anyhow, it might be your generousity to provide me with this information, appreciated! If you want to know something about aerial reconnaissance, the equipment of other university departments, the tools and the experiences there, feel free to ask.

Somehow it's not so straightforward to communicate with you, I actually agreed to your sentiment that Pentax with Ricoh might become a valid provider of tools for use in heavy duty environments, for documentation, which is done in various fields, where I just mentioned some additional scenarios to your war-reporter.

If for these an established dedicated so called pro-service is necessary is up for discussion, but I do think you did get this point. However, our Hasselblads and D800s etc. are the main tools which are in a maintainance cycle, where most of the research in academic institutions is based on short-time project, where new equipment is bought for let's say 3-5 yeras by the directors itself for their fieldwork. Hardly any do or could invest in additional fees for a pro-program. Most end up with D5100, Rebels or even entrance Sony or (some time ago) Olympus DSLRs with Sigma kitzooms.

And most would be better off with Pentax offerings, even without the so called pro-support. Fieldseason is some month a year, plenty of time inbetween for cleaning and maintainance, that might be a difference to the cliche of a traditional news, wedding etc. pro.

Still, Ricoh has some good background in this regard, who knows, maybe that's where they are heading in the end, contracting departments and institutions, I don't think the direction in the development of new equipment would contradict that.
I honestly don't understand what your argument is, unless you're just picking things apart, which it seems like you are doing. If you have a clear side, can you concisely post it so I can address it?

If it helps, post in German.
11-07-2013, 04:14 PM   #627
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,428
Iberia:
I said "highly desirable", not "objects of desire". They might be tools, but they're photographic tools - and I don't know about you, but I never cared about a screwdriver's optical image rendering characteristics
I find the new Limited zoom highly desirable (to be confirmed after image samples and after I'll handle one) because it promise not only an useful focal range, weather sealing and silent AF, but also Limited-like handling/feeling. It should be a joy to use.

On the contrary, I think they have bigger issues with the zooms. There's none suitable for a FF camera, and even APS-C ones are in need of a replacement (the 16-50, for example - not up to the * designation).
I do hope they won't neglect the primes, and that we'll see new, improved designs.

Last edited by Kunzite; 11-07-2013 at 04:20 PM.
11-07-2013, 05:20 PM   #628
Pentaxian
VisualDarkness's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,439
Here in Sweden the 20-40mm will be prices basically the same as the DA* 16-50/2.8, quite logical to me. You choose between compactness, image quality (probable), build, design, range and aperture. I would say that it makes sense in that regard. Though if you count on third party options Sigma seems to cut invisible corners to get the price down, it's almost magic.
11-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #629
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 392
The price is a bit rich for me considering that the lens's specs don't seem to solve any problems for me. However, I bet it's a fine lens that will justify it's cost with use. And, I sort of enjoy the oddball Pentax lenses. They take some work to figure out but generally they really reward the effort.

I can think of a few cases where I would use a lens like this but it doesn't seem to be a better choice in those circumstances than the lenses I currently own, or other lenses that are available on the market.

So, it's another Pentax lens that isn't for me. That's fine. I'm sure that the people it IS for will enjoy the heck out of it.
11-07-2013, 09:26 PM   #630
Pentaxian
bossa's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 4,538
QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Flailing MTF graphs, the enemone of image quality
I can't believe that I wasted a perfectly good "joke" on you people. Are you all completely humourless?
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
20-40mm, da, dc, f2.8-4, hd, lens, pentax news, pentax rumors, pentax-da, wr
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The DA Limited Series Review [15/21/35/40/70] DonThomaso Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 7 03-04-2014 05:13 PM
KMZ remaking the MIR-20 and Helios 40-2 ironlionzion Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 16 09-27-2012 11:36 AM
For Sale - Sold: DA 21, 40 and 70, D FA 100 WR and FA 50/1.4, all EX++(Canada) farfisa Sold Items 11 04-23-2012 06:38 AM
Wanted - Acquired: DA 40 ltd and a DA 12-24 or Sigma 10-20 Jeff Bennett Sold Items 5 03-22-2011 03:32 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:05 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top