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11-08-2013, 11:15 AM   #676
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
LOLOL, $900?

I paid like $300-something for my Tamron 17-50. And it's really not that big. Sealed, no, but that's what filters and plastic bags are for (and I have shot in the rain with it just like that).
Honestly I'd probably rather shoot a $300 lens in a bag than a $900 'WR' lens in the rain.

Of course when it's just 'threatening' rain then what do you do? If you're hiking, what do you do? If wind picks up and things get dusty, what do you do?

I bought a 35mm macro for more than you paid for your Tamron. I bought a 50mm lens for more than the tamron. They all have applications, etc.

I can certainly see this lens as a good value to some people IF it has great IQ in some certain ways. I doubt I'll purchase it but it might be a great addition to Pentax. It also might be a laughingstock. We'll know in a couple of months.

11-08-2013, 11:20 AM   #677
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
LOLOL, $900?

I paid like $300-something for my Tamron 17-50. And it's really not that big. Sealed, no, but that's what filters and plastic bags are for (and I have shot in the rain with it just like that).
You may want to do that but others may not. And some people may shoot in conditions worse than you.

It's a limited, it has DC, it has WR...if it also has really good image quality, it will be worth the street price, which is going to be less than launch price.
11-08-2013, 11:23 AM   #678
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
LOLOL, $900?

I paid like $300-something for my Tamron 17-50. And it's really not that big. Sealed, no, but that's what filters and plastic bags are for (and I have shot in the rain with it just like that).
+ third-party vs. OEM
+ much lower build quality, plastic and no weather sealing vs. exquisite Limited aluminium build
+ optically OK, but not terribly impressive vs. unknown
+ obsolete - replaced by the VR version (which is about $650) vs. newly introduced, not yet on the market
+ larger and heavier despite inferior build
And being told by hardcore Tamron fans how they would go through few lens samples to get a "good" one, I'd rather have the Limited and pay 900 euro for it. I can't find the old Tamron for $300, anyway.
11-08-2013, 11:35 AM   #679
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
+ third-party vs. OEM
+ much lower build quality, plastic and no weather sealing vs. exquisite Limited aluminium build
+ optically OK, but not terribly impressive vs. unknown
+ obsolete - replaced by the VR version (which is about $650) vs. newly introduced, not yet on the market
+ larger and heavier despite inferior build
And being told by hardcore Tamron fans how they would go through few lens samples to get a "good" one, I'd rather have the Limited and pay 900 euro for it. I can't find the old Tamron for $300, anyway.
One copy for me, sharp throughout. Only a +3 adjustment after the 1.13 was required (no adjustment before).

And the opticals are quite good. Not even if the LTD has exquisite optics will it make a difference for a person in it for gadgets and internet forum street cred.

You've challenged me previously, Alex, on DPR, about trying something out. Now you are presenting going on what others have told you about Tamron?

My Tamron, I got before the pricing increase, thankfully. And it paid for itself, in fact.

11-08-2013, 11:37 AM   #680
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I've said my opinion above but I think it bears repeating, IMO this is the macbook air of lenses: in pure horsepower the specs are not impressive but there's nothing else in the market that's even close to it in terms of featureset.

For the Air it's aluminum chassis, lightweight, crazy long battery life. In the case of the lens it's WR, DC, size, metal build. Try it, find another laptop/lens in existence that offers these qualities for the same price. These features are worth the premium for some people, and not worth it for others. If you're the latter, skip the lens. This lens' pricing while expensive, is not out of the line, as it truly has no competition.

The Tamron 17-50 in comparison is like a midrange i5 laptop. You can do more things with it, but you probably won't bring with you on your holiday backpacking trip.

my 2c only

Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-08-2013 at 11:45 AM.
11-08-2013, 11:40 AM   #681
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm sorry, are you talking about the Canon-like green ring?
Canon green ring lens DO defractive optics
*sigh*, I'm aware of the 2(?) Canon DO lenses, though I've yet to see one in the wild--obviously it was sloppy of me to say green was "uniquely Pentax". Safer to just say "I associate red rings with Canon and I associate green rings with Pentax."

Anyway, the red looks great and is here to stay. I'm done now with the ring debate.
11-08-2013, 11:43 AM   #682
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
One copy for me, sharp throughout. Only a +3 adjustment after the 1.13 was required (no adjustment before).

And the opticals are quite good. Not even if the LTD has exquisite optics will it make a difference for a person in it for gadgets and internet forum street cred.

You've challenged me previously, Alex, on DPR, about trying something out. Now you are presenting going on what others have told you about Tamron?

My Tamron, I got before the pricing increase, thankfully. And it paid for itself, in fact.
Please don't misunderstand, it's good that Tamron (and Sigma) offers us affordable choices.
But you shouldn't talk as if it's more or less the same as the Limited. The differences might not be important to you, but they might be to others; and when you're talking about prices which are no longer valid, that's even more unfair.
11-08-2013, 11:48 AM   #683
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
+ third-party vs. OEM
+ much lower build quality, plastic and no weather sealing vs. exquisite Limited aluminium build
+ optically OK, but not terribly impressive vs. unknown
+ obsolete - replaced by the VR version (which is about $650) vs. newly introduced, not yet on the market
+ larger and heavier despite inferior build
And being told by hardcore Tamron fans how they would go through few lens samples to get a "good" one, I'd rather have the Limited and pay 900 euro for it.
QuoteQuote:
+ optically OK, but not terribly impressive vs. unknown
Optically OK compared to what? I've been under the impression that this lens is top of it's class in IQ, so I'm always looking for an informed opinion that says otherwise.

I could argue any of those points… but that one stands out.

11-08-2013, 11:48 AM   #684
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Please don't misunderstand, it's good that Tamron (and Sigma) offers us affordable choices.
But you shouldn't talk as if it's more or less the same as the Limited. The differences might not be important to you, but they might be to others; and when you're talking about prices which are no longer valid, that's even more unfair.
If you want to be 100% impartial, as you demand people to be on both forums, Alex, you would be so impartial as to wait and see what we have for true samples, sample variability, feedback, tests, etc. No one can ever know the comparison now on the optical qualities and final rendering and charactertistics. We could look at charts all we want, and there is little bearing we'll see on the final.

And here Amazon.de: Einkaufsangebote: Tamron AF 17-50mm 2,8 XR Di II LD ASL digitales Objektiv f

In Germany, 285 Euros for the 17-50= 370 USD (I actually bought mine for about 50 EUR less, so we're not too far off. And a 5 year warranty.

And by the way, Alex, I've noted that I've never seen you ever post a picture or a link to a gallery. Do you have one we can check out?
11-08-2013, 12:12 PM   #685
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Wow, snake, I see you're starting getting personal, again. I'll only answer this:
We already can have a very good guess at:
+ being an OEM lens
+ build quality
+ launch date, being or not superseded by a new model
+ size and weight
What is missing is the optical quality, the only one which I marked as "unknown". Guess which one you singled out...

P.S. I managed to find it cheaper at a Romanian store - special price, until 11th. Nice, but I'll pass it.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Optically OK compared to what? I've been under the impression that this lens is top of it's class in IQ, so I'm always looking for an informed opinion that says otherwise.

I could argue any of those points… but that one stands out.
I'm curious how could you argue the other points... but I won't lose any sleep over it.
The answer is simple: I'm used with high quality primes, so hardly any 17-50-ish mm lens on the market would be IMHO optically "excellent". I'm explicitly including the Pentax 16-50, which I don't find it really worthy of the * designation. I think Canon's 17-55 is very good (and pricy!), but I don't know much about it.
This Tamron, if my memory serves me right, has very good center sharpness but so-so on corners (after a quick glance at photozone.de it might have been the field curvature kicking in). You can of course use it with good results, and for its price it's a steal. But, to get back at my point - it's not like it's optical qualities would be impossible to match.
11-08-2013, 12:15 PM - 2 Likes   #686
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To be honest I don't care about what other lenses are in the market. I don't care if they are f2.8 or f1.8 or greater reach on the wide-angle or telesite. I like this lens and I hope it will fit to my wallet.
11-08-2013, 12:18 PM   #687
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Wow, snake, I see you're starting getting personal, again. I'll only answer this:
We already can have a very good guess at:
+ being an OEM lens
+ build quality
+ launch date, being or not superseded by a new model
+ size and weight
What is missing is the optical quality, the only one which I marked as "unknown". Guess which one you singled out...

P.S. I managed to find it cheaper at a Romanian store - special price, until 11th. Nice, but I'll pass it.


I'm curious how could you argue the other points... but I won't lose any sleep over it.
The answer is simple: I'm used with high quality primes, so hardly any 17-50-ish mm lens on the market would be IMHO optically "excellent". I'm explicitly including the Pentax 16-50, which I don't find it really worthy of the * designation. I think Canon's 17-55 is very good (and pricy!), but I don't know much about it.
This Tamron, if my memory serves me right, has very good center sharpness but so-so on corners (after a quick glance at photozone.de it might have been the field curvature kicking in). You can of course use it with good results, and for its price it's a steal. But, to get back at my point - it's not like it's optical qualities would be impossible to match.
Alex,

Are you a hobbyist, paid photographer, or just into cameras as gadgets? Like I said, on DPR, I've never seen a single pic, nor gallery posted by you anywhere. Only spec discussion.

That would make a difference to understand where you come from.
11-08-2013, 12:25 PM   #688
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I work in IT and photography is a hobby of mine. I'm a bit shy showing my pictures to strangers
That's all you will find out, since I'm not this thread's subject. Ad hominem is a fallacy, anyway, and not a valid argumentation.
Have a nice evening, good bye.
11-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #689
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
+ obsolete - replaced by the VR version (which is about $650)
The Pentax version (A16P) without VR
has better optical quality than the deliberately decentered VR version.
11-08-2013, 12:30 PM - 1 Like   #690
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I work in IT and photography is a hobby of mine. I'm a bit shy showing my pictures to strangers
That's all you will find out, since I'm not this thread's subject. Ad hominem is a fallacy, anyway, and not a valid argumentation.
Have a nice evening, good bye.
Alex, there was no ad hominem there.

I have read your authoritative posts for several years on DPR, now here, not having seen a single picture from you, ever. So it would be interesting to see if you are just a gadget junkie making posts purely from a spec-sheet comparison, or if you're actually a photographer and what you produce with it. When you're giving such authoritative information, it often helps to see what the person does, where they are coming from, and what they are able to produce.

Your recommendations and authoritative arguments for would be validated by such a thing. This is not turning the topic into one about you. We'd just like to see what you shoot, since you're very big on this item that you have never shot with.
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