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11-08-2013, 12:33 PM   #691
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I can't believe that I wasted a perfectly good "joke" on you people. Are you all completely humourless?
To plagiarise paraphrase Dorothy Parker:

A joke on PF is no laughing matter!

11-08-2013, 12:40 PM   #692
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
That lens was discontinued some time ago.. as a consequence, the prices for this lens have gone up.
Available for USD 533:

Voigtlander Nokton 58mm/f1.4 SL-II Lens (Pentax KA Mount) ShaShinKi.com - Malaysia's First & Largest Online Camera Shop!
11-08-2013, 12:57 PM - 1 Like   #693
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Alex, there was no ad hominem there.

I have read your authoritative posts for several years on DPR, now here, not having seen a single picture from you, ever. So it would be interesting to see if you are just a gadget junkie making posts purely from a spec-sheet comparison, or if you're actually a photographer and what you produce with it. When you're giving such authoritative information, it often helps to see what the person does, where they are coming from, and what they are able to produce.
This is the ad hominem.
The arguments made should stand by themselves, not by whomever made them; and should be discussed as such. Trying to get to the author only shows a failure to find counter-arguments.

Now, can we get back to the subject?

Last edited by Kunzite; 11-08-2013 at 01:03 PM.
11-08-2013, 01:13 PM   #694
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
This is the ad hominem.
The arguments made should stand by themselves, not by whomever made them; and should be discussed as such. Trying to get to the author only shows a failure to find counter-arguments.

Now, can we get back to the subject?
Alex,

That's not ad hominem, either. It's not about you. No amount of acting like that's what's being asked is going to make it so.

You're discussing the merits of this lens, a lens that isn't even out yet, even comparing it to lenses you've never used yourself in an identical fashion. I've followed your posts for several years and have not seen one photo from you, ever. If you're defending and pushing the merits of a lens, it would help to know what type of photography you engage in, where you see this lens working.

All that's being asked is for photos from you, so we know your style, usage, and where you're coming from so we understand why you are, with so much vigor and authority, able to defend a not-yet-released lens. Is it purely from spec sheets? Is it from your own experience with it? Is it from what you think it can do in your usage? If the latter, then what is your usage? What do you shoot, and why do you think this lens will work there? What is the basis for you being able to recommend this lens and others?

It seems rather bizarre to see an imaginary, arbitrary line being drawn at posting photos, does it not, Alex?

11-08-2013, 01:21 PM   #695
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Your recommendations and authoritative arguments for would be validated by such a thing. .
LOL you must be joking, aren't you ?
11-08-2013, 01:38 PM   #696
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I'm afraid he honestly believes the lens' brand, build quality, launch date, size and weight depends on whether I could provide or not quality images
11-08-2013, 01:44 PM   #697
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm afraid he honestly believes the lens' brand, build quality, launch date, size and weight depends on whether I could provide or not quality images
No one said that, either, Alex.

It's obvious you're trying to help people and steer them in what you believe to be the right direction and make informed purchases. So that would need to be qualified so people know what you're basing opinions, recommendations, and analyses on. Your recommendations are quite authoritative, but conspicuously absent of such things as style and usage of referenced photographic tools, so it would help to understand where you come from and what you're using your photographic equipment for so others can understand if your recommendations can be weighted or not for their usage.
11-08-2013, 01:51 PM   #698
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So, to try another tack, when the lens comes out, I'll probably be comparing it to, the Tamron 17-50, what will you guys be comparing it to?

11-08-2013, 01:52 PM   #699
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So, to try another tack, when the lens comes out, I'll probably be comparing it to, the Tamron 17-50, what will you guys be comparing it to?
Why wouldn't anyone compare it to what they already have, in addition to anything else in the range they may use it in?
11-08-2013, 01:53 PM   #700
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So, to try another tack, when the lens comes out, I'll probably be comparing it to, the Tamron 17-50, what will you guys be comparing it to?
To existing DA Limiteds what else ?
11-08-2013, 01:54 PM   #701
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
To existing DA Limiteds what else ?
I'd like to know what the aperture spread is throughout the zoom range. And at least at 20mm, I'd be interested in seeing how it does against the old FA20.
11-08-2013, 01:58 PM   #702
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Why wouldn't anyone compare it to what they already have, in addition to anything else in the range they may use it in?
that would be the tamron 17-50, 21 ltd, 18-135, it's definitely got some competition around here, other lenses i don't have would be the 16-50, both of them, etc. it's a crowd spot, and I didn't mention, the kit lens.

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
To existing DA Limiteds what else ?
but, it's a zoom....
11-08-2013, 02:04 PM   #703
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
that would be the tamron 17-50, 21 ltd, 18-135, it's definitely got some competition around here, other lenses i don't have would be the 16-50, both of them, etc. it's a crowd spot, and I didn't mention, the kit lens.



but, it's a zoom....
Sure, but often people are buying zooms for stuff where a prime may not be a good alternative. I originally wanted a DA14, but was recommended, on this very forum, to try the Tamron 17-50 instead if I could handle something a bit less wide. I have no comparison, however, but I am fairly happy. So that's the flipside.

I've wanted an FA20 for a long time, but they are expensive and rare. So if I were to ever go for one of these, after the prices drop, it would be with the intention of usage at 20mm primarily, as a replacement for an FA20. The zoom would just be something to sort of add on top, but smaller apertures than f2.8 are of no interest to me, unless I"m shooting in daylight.
11-08-2013, 02:15 PM   #704
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QuoteOriginally posted by Andi Lo Quote
nothing else in the market that's even close to it in terms of featureset
Actually Andi, there is something very comparable, with a few advantages of its own. Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon vs Apple MacBook Air Infographic It's off-topic, but having used several different brands of laptops for work and home since '97, there is nothing that compares to Lenovo for build quality. Of course, you have to prefer black over white and the X-1 Carbon won't run OSX (not a disadvantage in my mind).

I do understand your point, but while some people will buy Pentax gear no matter what, they don't necessarily buy the entire catalogue. Really the only reason to buy the 20-40 over the 16-50 DA* is size, and the compromise is a slower aperture and shorter focal length range. Undoubtedly, the 20-40 Ltd will be very rare in the future, but that doesn't translate into high resale value, either.
11-08-2013, 02:28 PM   #705
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
So, to try another tack, when the lens comes out, I'll probably be comparing it to, the Tamron 17-50, what will you guys be comparing it to?
Well I'm going to sell my 40mm Ltd.

So my lens line-up will be:

DA 20-40mm Ltd. - FA 31mm Ltd - DA*55mm - FA*85mm - DA*300mm (and the sigma 70-200mm)

So there is no comparisson.

- K-01 with either FA31mm/FA*85mm
- K-5 with either DA*55mm/FA*85mm/DA*300mm
- K-3 with either 20-40mm/DA*55mm/FA*85mm/DA*300mm/Sigma

So all have their own jobs.
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