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11-08-2013, 03:21 PM   #706
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QuoteOriginally posted by wed7 Quote
The hood looks very cool, as if there is none. I hope it will really do its job. Well done Pentax engineers!
I am willing to bet it doesn't.
For it to work properly it would have to be similar to the one on the FA31mm...

R

11-08-2013, 03:30 PM   #707
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Since everyone seem to be comparing Tamron to this DA lim. I'm a big fan of Tamron lenses and use them alot (28-75, 70-300 VC). Best value for money in the whole industry imo (although Sigma still owns UWA and supertele). The point of this lens however is WR, DC, size, and build. People attach actual $$$ value to these and for some, this value justifies the extra cost of the DA 20-40

If you're skeptical about the value of "build", please try any takumar or any limited. It's so nice to use that you actually want to pick it up and shoot just for the heck of it. I never feel that way with my Tamron lenses. For paid work I really dont care about this, but for personal shooting I value it enough to still use Takumars.

QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Actually Andi, there is something very comparable, with a few advantages of its own. Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon vs Apple MacBook Air Infographic It's off-topic, but having used several different brands of laptops for work and home since '97, there is nothing that compares to Lenovo for build quality. Of course, you have to prefer black over white and the X-1 Carbon won't run OSX (not a disadvantage in my mind).
My last off topic post I swear After this I'll bring to PM.

I haven't read the specs of the X1 in detail, however I noticed the one compared is the old Mac Air. The newest Haswell has 13 hours battery life and on this front I have yet to find a comparable computer, but will be happy to be proven wrong. (Since the imac moved to IPS displays imo it has also been the best value AIO computer). As a disclaimer I'm actually still saving up for my own mac air, same as this DA lim . My Nexus 4 have been quite satisfactory for computing on the go.

As much as I'd love to, I dont think I will be buying this lens anytime soon due to its price, myself On the topic of weight and size, DA 40 is the only pentax lens I kept as It's the only one I can't replace in another mount, so for me at least, there is value attached to weight and size. If DA 40 is $1000 I doubt I would have owned it though.

Last edited by Andi Lo; 11-08-2013 at 03:47 PM.
11-08-2013, 03:33 PM   #708
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
+ third-party vs. OEM
+ much lower build quality, plastic and no weather sealing vs. exquisite Limited aluminium build
+ optically OK, but not terribly impressive vs. unknown
+ obsolete - replaced by the VR version (which is about $650) vs. newly introduced, not yet on the market
+ larger and heavier despite inferior build
And being told by hardcore Tamron fans how they would go through few lens samples to get a "good" one, I'd rather have the Limited and pay 900 euro for it. I can't find the old Tamron for $300, anyway.
The Tamron is a 3X zoom and has a constant aperture of f2.8; it's bound to be bigger and heavier.
But it's wider range of focal lengths provides far more flexiblility and convenience and it sports a constant aperture of f2.8.
Of course it's body is made of plastic and has no environmental sealing but it can be bought new for 285€ at Amazon.de.

No chiqueness, no luxury, no collection value, no Pentax logo, just a tool…

R

Last edited by Iberia; 11-08-2013 at 03:44 PM.
11-08-2013, 04:20 PM   #709
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Perhaps it's simply due to he fact that I haven't been around these forums long enough, but I don't recall such a determined dissection of the value of the other Limited lenses. I always had the impression that the value of these was accepted due to their generally conceded superior optical and construction qualities.

Why are we trying to justify the value of this particular lens more than the other Limiteds?

Also, take a "medium-priced" Limited, add cost of zoom, WR, DC motor, and how far from $1,000 are you?

11-08-2013, 05:03 PM   #710
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
... I don't recall such a determined dissection of the value of the other Limited lenses. I always had the impression that the value of these was accepted due to their generally conceded superior optical and construction qualities. Why are we trying to justify the value of this particular lens more than the other Limiteds? Also, take a "medium-priced" Limited, add cost of zoom, WR, DC motor, and how far from $1,000 are you?
The value of the DA limiteds has deteriorated since Pentax/Ricoh increased the prices by 40% with largely superficial and cosmetic changes.

DA 15: $510 -> $700 (+37%) from March 2012 to today
DA 21: $510 -> $700 (+37%)
DA 35: $540 -> $750 (+39%)
DA 40: $340 -> $550 (+62%)
DA 70: $545 -> $750 (+38%)

Judged against the latest prices a $1000 DA limited DC WR zoom may not seem overpriced, even though it's 33% more expensive than the costliest DA primes.

Had Ricoh reissued the DA limiteds with the HD coating and WR along with the price increase, there would have been much more acceptance of the price adjustment, because the actual utility would have increased. As it is, they simply increased prices 1) so that retailers would be more willing to stock them and 2) to give the Pentax DA limiteds more perceived exclusivity.

In my opinion as an owner-user the DA limiteds are just not worth the price Ricoh is asking for them. But they are great little lenses and my advice to anyone looking to own one is look for good used copies at the old prices - you won't be disappointed.

Last edited by Gray; 11-08-2013 at 11:08 PM.
11-08-2013, 05:10 PM   #711
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
Perhaps it's simply due to he fact that I haven't been around these forums long enough, but I don't recall such a determined dissection of the value of the other Limited lenses. I always had the impression that the value of these was accepted due to their generally conceded superior optical and construction qualities.

Why are we trying to justify the value of this particular lens more than the other Limiteds?

Also, take a "medium-priced" Limited, add cost of zoom, WR, DC motor, and how far from $1,000 are you?
Perhaps because the other limiteds were not zooms… it's much harder to build a zoom. There is a certain quality to my 21 ltd, that I've never seen in a zoom. I'm not even sure what it is but I know it when I see it. To be called a limited, I'd expect this lens to have that quality. Personally if this lens doesn't have amazing bokeh, isn't considered one of the best lenses at it's focal length ever, etc. I'm going to very disappointed they are calling it a Limited. There's a certain mystique and quality to limited that hasn't been present in Pentax lenses since Hoya took over. I'm suspicious that this might be just another high res. numerically fantastic zoom, without the limited magic, thus diluting the designation, and in a sense, the brand.
11-08-2013, 05:30 PM   #712
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Perhaps because the other limiteds were not zooms… it's much harder to build a zoom. There is a certain quality to my 21 ltd, that I've never seen in a zoom. I'm not even sure what it is but I know it when I see it. To be called a limited, I'd expect this lens to have that quality. Personally if this lens doesn't have amazing bokeh, isn't considered one of the best lenses at it's focal length ever, etc. I'm going to very disappointed they are calling it a Limited. There's a certain mystique and quality to limited that hasn't been present in Pentax lenses since Hoya took over. I'm suspicious that this might be just another high res. numerically fantastic zoom, without the limited magic, thus diluting the designation, and in a sense, the brand.
For most people, they're not going to care about mystique and magic. They care about what kind of pics they can take with it.
11-08-2013, 05:35 PM   #713
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
For most people, they're not going to care about mystique and magic. They care about what kind of pics they can take with it.
DId I not mention, that I know the quality when I see it. I guess it wasn't clear I was talking about images. Well here you go. I was talking about the images my 21 takes, a quality in the images. Keep your magic to yourself. I didn't say it, you put the word in my mouth for your own purposes. It has nothing to do with my post.

11-08-2013, 06:25 PM   #714
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, Yes $750 to $800 would be okay.

11-08-2013, 07:00 PM   #715
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Perhaps because the other limiteds were not zooms… it's much harder to build a zoom. There is a certain quality to my 21 ltd, that I've never seen in a zoom. I'm not even sure what it is but I know it when I see it. To be called a limited, I'd expect this lens to have that quality. Personally if this lens doesn't have amazing bokeh, isn't considered one of the best lenses at it's focal length ever, etc. I'm going to very disappointed they are calling it a Limited. There's a certain mystique and quality to limited that hasn't been present in Pentax lenses since Hoya took over. I'm suspicious that this might be just another high res. numerically fantastic zoom, without the limited magic, thus diluting the designation, and in a sense, the brand.
Obviously, time will tell whether or not the "Limited" label is appropriate for this particular zoom, in any individual's opinion. Meanwhile, however, I find the comparisons to much lesser lenses not consistent with the respect other Limiteds are given. If we're going to start comparing this zoom to the kit lens, then it would be only fair to compare all Limiteds to other, much lower-priced and less well constructed alternatives, simply on the basis of similar focal lengths. I dare uspect that if such comparisons were to be made on the basis of objective criteria (i.e. measurements) alone, at least some of the highly regarded Limiteds would not come out on top.
11-08-2013, 10:44 PM   #716
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Actually Andi, there is something very comparable, with a few advantages of its own. Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon vs Apple MacBook Air Infographic It's off-topic, but having used several different brands of laptops for work and home since '97, there is nothing that compares to Lenovo for build quality. Of course, you have to prefer black over white and the X-1 Carbon won't run OSX (not a disadvantage in my mind).
Funny, thought about the same kind of comparison although I'll push it further.
Talking about build (and nothing else), I'd say DA/FA Limited vs Tamron 17-50 kinda looks like Thinkpad vs Acer Laptops.

It doesn't mean the Acer has no value. I won't touch but a free one and I'd probably sell it
As for Apple, their build is nowhere near Acer, fortunately but neither is it near Thinkpad. And as Apple is a b.. I mean picky lol about warranty when Lenovo is VERY serious about warranty, the choice is easy.

Now back to photo, this comparison led me to another linked topic ... what about warranty support from Ricoh. I'd like to see a "Thinkpad-like" warranty. That'd be very valuable.
11-08-2013, 11:11 PM   #717
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QuoteOriginally posted by RGlasel Quote
Actually Andi, there is something very comparable, with a few advantages of its own. Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Carbon vs Apple MacBook Air Infographic It's off-topic, but having used several different brands of laptops for work and home since '97, there is nothing that compares to Lenovo for build quality. Of course, you have to prefer black over white and the X-1 Carbon won't run OSX (not a disadvantage in my mind).

I do understand your point, but while some people will buy Pentax gear no matter what, they don't necessarily buy the entire catalogue. Really the only reason to buy the 20-40 over the 16-50 DA* is size, and the compromise is a slower aperture and shorter focal length range. Undoubtedly, the 20-40 Ltd will be very rare in the future, but that doesn't translate into high resale value, either.
Critically wrong, sorry. The major reason, along with other important factors, is the SDM that lens has. I am never buying the 16-50 DA* for that reason alone and there are other down sides too: size, weight and no full frame support. Other lenses with SDM I would consider but never this one. Although maybe not a major thing, the 20-40 also has HD coating which is better than what the 16-50 has.
11-09-2013, 02:49 AM   #718
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rorschach Quote
Critically wrong, sorry. The major reason, along with other important factors, is the SDM that lens has. I am never buying the 16-50 DA* for that reason alone and there are other down sides too: size, weight and no full frame support. Other lenses with SDM I would consider but never this one. Although maybe not a major thing, the 20-40 also has HD coating which is better than what the 16-50 has.
Has anyone confirmed the better HD coating performance through objective/cientifical evaluation methods?

R

Last edited by Iberia; 11-09-2013 at 02:50 AM. Reason: grammar
11-09-2013, 02:58 AM   #719
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Only by empirical observation; I'm not aware of any laboratory measurements being published (except Pentax' own chart). Yes, it's clearly better.
11-09-2013, 03:07 AM   #720
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gray Quote
DA 15: $510 -> $700 (+37%) from March 2012 to today
The lowest price I have seen during that period was $407 around Easter/Passover last year.
A week ago you could get a DA15 from Adorama for $499.

Timing matters.
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