The DA limited is 20-40? and WR?!

repaap · 11-02-2013, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

Me too.
I've dithered around the FA 20-35 for a while,
but held off in hopes of this lens from the roadmap.

I have tokina 20-35/2.8, while I love that lens, it is just too big for most of time.

**Fontan** · 11-02-2013, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

What's need got to do with anything...?

You got me there. Very true. As long as it looks cool, and yes it does look very nice. I somehow prefer the black one over silver . . . .

hongzhibin1987 · 11-02-2013, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by starbase218

I own that lens and I don't see how this zoom can replace it. The 35/2.4 is not too fast as it is; IMO Pentax should make it a 35/2 and stop producing the FA35/2 altogether. But at least it's cheap. This zoom, however, will be over a stop slower at the same focal length. And I don't expect it to be cheap.

Anyway, Pentax won't make the 35/2.4 a 35/2 because that would hurt sales of the 31/1.8. That's the problem we have: too many not-so-fast 35mm-ish lenses all fighting for a spot, with the benchmark set by the FA ltd. But that's another topic.

Totally agree with you.
My point is: the selling point of Pentax is primes, and i don't doubt lots ppl own several primes. And in this way personally I love the 20-40---perfect lens for daily walking around. The problem is: if say RP keeps the nice tradition of old Pentax---which mean nice and usable wide-open, this 20-40/2.8-4 can take the place of 21, 35/2.4, and 40, and i'm pretty sure the price of this lens will be less than 21+35+40. Even a prime enthusiast might hesitate buy 21/35/40 at this moment.
But anyway, let's see. I'm start thinking this can be a good lend replacing the old 1645----with an extra DA15mm

Wired · 11-02-2013, 12:51 PM

I'm excited for it, and I don't even mind the variable aperture. The idea is that it's going to be tiny, sounds perfect as a compact wide/normal for my kitbag. Afterall, I usually sit in the tele range anyways, and the Sigma f1.8 zoom is going to be too freaking big and heavy to haul everywhere. While I doubt it will get much use for me, it will be added to my collection. Just not a priority piece.

I'm guessing a $1,099 price for this beast. It will not be under $900 for sure. I think it would be wishful thinking for anything lower than that. $899 would be the smartest play for them in my opinion...but it's Pentax.

tigrebleu · 11-02-2013, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Uluru

As a comparison: Sigma 18-35 is wider (78mm) than DA 20-40's overall height (65mm).

Good point indeed. The Sigma 18-35 is way, way bigger than the Pentax 20-40 (which is to be expected with a lens with such a fast aperture).

Making a lens smaller than normal usually means a compromise on something else, either image quality, focal length range or maximum aperture. Ricoh-Pentax did a great job in keeping the size down with the DA 20-40mm, making it a great travel & street photography lens. Great to capture stills and videos of shy people, whereas a big lens will usually scared them away.

The drawback are the compromises, the first being the maximum aperture. While F2.8-4 isn't bad at all, it's far from what the Sigma 18-35mm F/1.8 can offer in terms of shallow depth of field control. But that thin DOF comes at a price, hence the huge size of the lens. The other compromise could be image quality. Sigma managed to keep the IQ very high on its 18-35mm F1.8, but they had to make a compromise on size to achieve that.

Most probably, the compromises Ricoh had to make on the 20-40mm F2.8-4 didn't affect image quality. They already made those compromises on focal length range (a 2X zoom isn't very impressive on that aspect,

) and on the maximum aperture, which is good, but not very fast by today's standards for such a short range zoom. So the IQ should be quite high in the end.

Kudos on the good job, Ricoh!

hongzhibin1987 · 11-02-2013, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by Wired

I'm excited for it, and I don't even mind the variable aperture. The idea is that it's going to be tiny, sounds perfect as a compact wide/normal for my kitbag. Afterall, I usually sit in the tele range anyways, and the Sigma f1.8 zoom is going to be too freaking big and heavy to haul everywhere. While I doubt it will get much use for me, it will be added to my collection. Just not a priority piece.

I'm guessing a $1,099 price for this beast. It will not be under $900 for sure. I think it would be wishful thinking for anything lower than that. $899 would be the smartest play for them in my opinion...but it's Pentax.

wow $1,099? Why I'm thinking about $799 is a good price...it's not like, 20-40/2.8 ....

Wired · 11-02-2013, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by hongzhibin1987

wow $1,099? Why I'm thinking about $799 is a good price...it's not like, 20-40/2.8 ....

full metal chassis, limited IQ quality, limited build quality, hand built, WR, DC motor. none of that says its going to be inexpensive to me.

Itai · 11-02-2013, 01:35 PM

This is a very odd lens, even for Pentax

I'm with the skeptics on this one. Unlike most other Limited lenses, this one offers nothing that another lens does not completely cover. When I saw the Limited zoom on the roadmap for the first time and a few months later Sigma's 18-35mm F/1.8 came out I thought Pentax would offer something comparable. The focal-range was shown approximately on the roadmap, so 18-35 or 20-40 was possible. Naturally since most Limited are relatively bright I expected something with F/2 or brighter which would be truly Limited for a zoom. There are way too many zooms at F/2.8+ to deserve the Limited label!

Hopefully the DA Zooms won't disappoint as much. I've been waiting to replace my 12-24mm F/4, hopefully with something even wider but still excellent quality.

Itai · 11-02-2013, 01:43 PM

Now that I've checked the latest rumored roadmap and, if indeed a 20-40mm is the Limited zoom, we may have quite a wide-angle soon!

If that DA Zoom Limited covers 20 to 40, the DA wide-zoom could be something like a 10-30mm. Please be constant-aperture! The normal DA zoom could cover 16 to 85 which is a very nice range for me. I'm sure plenty of people are waiting for the DA Tele Zoom too. Not my cup of tea but it looks like it could 120 to 360 or something similar. Could be a first such tele zoom for Pentax.

lytrytyr · 11-02-2013, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Itai

This is a very odd lens, even for Pentax

No, just the FA 20-35 revisited.

Originally posted by Itai

Unlike most other Limited lenses, this one offers nothing that another lens does not completely cover.

Not at its (small!) size.

Originally posted by Itai

Naturally since most Limited are relatively bright I expected something with F/2 or brighter which would be truly Limited for a zoom. There are way too many zooms at F/2.8+ to deserve the Limited label!

The fastest you get in the DA Limited series, to which this lens belongs, is f/2.4.

**monochrome** · 11-02-2013, 01:54 PM

Silver. On a black K-01.

Zygonyx · 11-02-2013, 02:08 PM

Idem, on a yellow K-01 or/and on a silver K-3

jimr-pdx · 11-02-2013, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Fontan

Other than WR, I am not getting it. 20 to 40 mm it is well covered. Why do you need this?

We really need a back view of this, to verify seals and DC motor contacts. Since no other Limited has them it's a concern that they're spoken of but not shown anywhere (yet). I'd enjoy this lens and use it plenty, but don't see the funds for it any time soon.

fast50 · 11-02-2013, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by hongzhibin1987

wow $1,099? Why I'm thinking about $799 is a good price...it's not like, 20-40/2.8 ....

$799 is a very good price. $1,099 is a realistic price.

The Kurly One · 11-02-2013, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by fast50

$799 is a very good price. $1,099 is a realistic price.

I read the first and last page, I thought that DA lenses were designed for APSC sensors? If they were going to make a FF move wouldn't new lenses cover the it?

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11-02-2013, 10:04 AM	#271
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by lytrytyr Me too. I've dithered around the FA 20-35 for a while, but held off in hopes of this lens from the roadmap. I have tokina 20-35/2.8, while I love that lens, it is just too big for most of time.

11-02-2013, 11:21 AM	#272
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan What's need got to do with anything...? You got me there. Very true. As long as it looks cool, and yes it does look very nice. I somehow prefer the black one over silver . . . .

11-02-2013, 11:50 AM	#273
hongzhibin1987 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 464	Originally posted by starbase218 I own that lens and I don't see how this zoom can replace it. The 35/2.4 is not too fast as it is; IMO Pentax should make it a 35/2 and stop producing the FA35/2 altogether. But at least it's cheap. This zoom, however, will be over a stop slower at the same focal length. And I don't expect it to be cheap. Anyway, Pentax won't make the 35/2.4 a 35/2 because that would hurt sales of the 31/1.8. That's the problem we have: too many not-so-fast 35mm-ish lenses all fighting for a spot, with the benchmark set by the FA ltd. But that's another topic. Totally agree with you. My point is: the selling point of Pentax is primes, and i don't doubt lots ppl own several primes. And in this way personally I love the 20-40---perfect lens for daily walking around. The problem is: if say RP keeps the nice tradition of old Pentax---which mean nice and usable wide-open, this 20-40/2.8-4 can take the place of 21, 35/2.4, and 40, and i'm pretty sure the price of this lens will be less than 21+35+40. Even a prime enthusiast might hesitate buy 21/35/40 at this moment. But anyway, let's see. I'm start thinking this can be a good lend replacing the old 1645----with an extra DA15mm

11-02-2013, 12:51 PM	#274
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	I'm excited for it, and I don't even mind the variable aperture. The idea is that it's going to be tiny, sounds perfect as a compact wide/normal for my kitbag. Afterall, I usually sit in the tele range anyways, and the Sigma f1.8 zoom is going to be too freaking big and heavy to haul everywhere. While I doubt it will get much use for me, it will be added to my collection. Just not a priority piece. I'm guessing a $1,099 price for this beast. It will not be under $900 for sure. I think it would be wishful thinking for anything lower than that. $899 would be the smartest play for them in my opinion...but it's Pentax.

11-02-2013, 12:56 PM	#275
tigrebleu Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lévis, Canada (Québec) Posts: 144	Originally posted by Uluru As a comparison: Sigma 18-35 is wider (78mm) than DA 20-40's overall height (65mm). Good point indeed. The Sigma 18-35 is way, way bigger than the Pentax 20-40 (which is to be expected with a lens with such a fast aperture). Making a lens smaller than normal usually means a compromise on something else, either image quality, focal length range or maximum aperture. Ricoh-Pentax did a great job in keeping the size down with the DA 20-40mm, making it a great travel & street photography lens. Great to capture stills and videos of shy people, whereas a big lens will usually scared them away. The drawback are the compromises, the first being the maximum aperture. While F2.8-4 isn't bad at all, it's far from what the Sigma 18-35mm F/1.8 can offer in terms of shallow depth of field control. But that thin DOF comes at a price, hence the huge size of the lens. The other compromise could be image quality. Sigma managed to keep the IQ very high on its 18-35mm F1.8, but they had to make a compromise on size to achieve that. Most probably, the compromises Ricoh had to make on the 20-40mm F2.8-4 didn't affect image quality. They already made those compromises on focal length range (a 2X zoom isn't very impressive on that aspect, ) and on the maximum aperture, which is good, but not very fast by today's standards for such a short range zoom. So the IQ should be quite high in the end. Kudos on the good job, Ricoh!

11-02-2013, 01:11 PM	#276
hongzhibin1987 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 464	Originally posted by Wired I'm excited for it, and I don't even mind the variable aperture. The idea is that it's going to be tiny, sounds perfect as a compact wide/normal for my kitbag. Afterall, I usually sit in the tele range anyways, and the Sigma f1.8 zoom is going to be too freaking big and heavy to haul everywhere. While I doubt it will get much use for me, it will be added to my collection. Just not a priority piece. I'm guessing a $1,099 price for this beast. It will not be under $900 for sure. I think it would be wishful thinking for anything lower than that. $899 would be the smartest play for them in my opinion...but it's Pentax. wow $1,099? Why I'm thinking about $799 is a good price...it's not like, 20-40/2.8 ....

11-02-2013, 01:14 PM	#277
Wired Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,519	Originally posted by hongzhibin1987 wow $1,099? Why I'm thinking about $799 is a good price...it's not like, 20-40/2.8 .... full metal chassis, limited IQ quality, limited build quality, hand built, WR, DC motor. none of that says its going to be inexpensive to me.

11-02-2013, 01:35 PM	#278
Itai Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 209	This is a very odd lens, even for Pentax I'm with the skeptics on this one. Unlike most other Limited lenses, this one offers nothing that another lens does not completely cover. When I saw the Limited zoom on the roadmap for the first time and a few months later Sigma's 18-35mm F/1.8 came out I thought Pentax would offer something comparable. The focal-range was shown approximately on the roadmap, so 18-35 or 20-40 was possible. Naturally since most Limited are relatively bright I expected something with F/2 or brighter which would be truly Limited for a zoom. There are way too many zooms at F/2.8+ to deserve the Limited label! Hopefully the DA Zooms won't disappoint as much. I've been waiting to replace my 12-24mm F/4, hopefully with something even wider but still excellent quality.

11-02-2013, 01:43 PM	#279
Itai Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery Posts: 209	Now that I've checked the latest rumored roadmap and, if indeed a 20-40mm is the Limited zoom, we may have quite a wide-angle soon! If that DA Zoom Limited covers 20 to 40, the DA wide-zoom could be something like a 10-30mm. Please be constant-aperture! The normal DA zoom could cover 16 to 85 which is a very nice range for me. I'm sure plenty of people are waiting for the DA Tele Zoom too. Not my cup of tea but it looks like it could 120 to 360 or something similar. Could be a first such tele zoom for Pentax.

11-02-2013, 01:45 PM	#280
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by Itai This is a very odd lens, even for Pentax No, just the FA 20-35 revisited. Originally posted by Itai Unlike most other Limited lenses, this one offers nothing that another lens does not completely cover. Not at its (small!) size. Originally posted by Itai Naturally since most Limited are relatively bright I expected something with F/2 or brighter which would be truly Limited for a zoom. There are way too many zooms at F/2.8+ to deserve the Limited label! The fastest you get in the DA Limited series, to which this lens belongs, is f/2.4.

11-02-2013, 01:54 PM	#281
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Silver. On a black K-01.

11-02-2013, 02:08 PM	#282
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Idem, on a yellow K-01 or/and on a silver K-3

11-02-2013, 02:20 PM	#283
jimr-pdx Pentaxian Join Date: May 2010 Location: now 1 hour north of PDX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,897	Originally posted by Fontan Other than WR, I am not getting it. 20 to 40 mm it is well covered. Why do you need this? We really need a back view of this, to verify seals and DC motor contacts. Since no other Limited has them it's a concern that they're spoken of but not shown anywhere (yet). I'd enjoy this lens and use it plenty, but don't see the funds for it any time soon.

11-02-2013, 02:22 PM	#284
fast50 Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 86	Originally posted by hongzhibin1987 wow $1,099? Why I'm thinking about $799 is a good price...it's not like, 20-40/2.8 .... $799 is a very good price. $1,099 is a realistic price.

11-02-2013, 02:31 PM	#285
The Kurly One Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 233	Originally posted by fast50 $799 is a very good price. $1,099 is a realistic price. I read the first and last page, I thought that DA lenses were designed for APSC sensors? If they were going to make a FF move wouldn't new lenses cover the it?