The DA limited is 20-40? and WR?!

lytrytyr · 11-02-2013, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by The Kurly One

I thought that DA lenses were designed for APSC sensors?

That is correct.

Originally posted by The Kurly One

If they were going to make a FF move wouldn't new lenses cover the it?

That's what the D FA lenses on the Russian rumor are all about:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/240639-pentax-ricoh...ml#post2553568

ElJamoquio · 11-02-2013, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by bxf

To those who find the zoom range somewhat limited: keep in mind that although the zoom ratio is only 2:1, at the indicated focal length range there is a 28 degree difference in the angle of view, as compared to a 10 degree difference for a 70-150 zoom, for example.

I tend to look at it from 'what other lenses are similar'.

For instance, the 8-16 Sigma is only a 2:1 but it's quite wide.
The 300-800 sigma is only ~2.5:1 but it's quite a telephoto.

In the regime of 'normal-ish' lenses like this one, 20-40 would be the shortest ratio 'normal' zoom lens I'm aware of on the market today.

But heck, it's already faster than Pentax's 21mm PRIME. It's only a stop slower than Pentax's 40mm prime. Of course, in the middle it's likely 1.5 stops slower than the 31mm, but it's also a small lens, and no one knows anything about it's IQ anyway... and IQ is king.

lytrytyr · 11-02-2013, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

In the regime of 'normal-ish' lenses like this one, 20-40 would be the shortest ratio 'normal' zoom lens I'm aware of on the market today.

The FA 20-35 is still on the market in Japan, for JPY 84,800:

smc PENTAX-FA 20-35mm F4AL: ??? | RICOH IMAGING

ElJamoquio · 11-02-2013, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

The FA 20-35 is still on the market in Japan, for JPY 84,800:

smc PENTAX-FA 20-35mm F4AL: ??? | RICOH IMAGING

20-35 on 35mm is wide angle in my view.

**robbiec** · 11-02-2013, 03:59 PM

IQ is king but some on here want the impossible. I can see where Pentax are going lens wise now, usable size, usable aperture wrapped in gorgeously detailed bodies. The rest of the market is going big, Pentax are following their traditionally small but massive bang for buck IQ wise. I was chatting with a visiting PRO photographer (stock model shooting, circa 25,000 images a month) at my club and he had a 5D III with a 85 f/1.2 mounted. I put my K-5 with 77 beside it and it was dwarfed, one question asked, what's the typical aperture you set when taking a portrait? Between f/2 and f/2.8 was the reply. So there fellow forumers is the answer.. Pentax design lenses to be usable from wide open without sacrificing or encountering weight / handling issues. They actually want you to sling your K whatever on your shoulder, take a walk and enable you to create some images that will make you want to take more and better ones. Not to design lenses that are so big or expensive or so difficult to use that you won't be taking them out.
I like this little zoom, as someone mentioned earlier, a street shooting ninja zoom

zany225 · 11-02-2013, 04:21 PM

Yes, I agree. I love this lens and also hate this lens simultaneously. Love it because of its features but hate it because its price. :P

Moreover, regarding to releasing this lens, it is a great news for me because it seems Ricoh still do not dump cropped-sensor camera sensor in a couple years after they release FF soon.
So there will be more options for buyers and users what kind of camera, either cropped-sensor or FF, is appropriate for them to use and spend money for.

Of course, walking around shooting like me and not do much portrait still don't want to spend more money for bigger camera and bigger lenses. Just capture memory in my life so this is just enough. But, in long term, if FF price drop down to reasonable price I will re-think about it for sure.

lytrytyr · 11-02-2013, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

20-35 on 35mm is wide angle in my view.

If you use it the way most people seem to use it nowadays, on APS-C
(9 of the most recent 10 reviews on SMC Pentax-FA 20-35mm F4 AL Reviews - FA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database),
then it will become what you described as "normal-ish" in the context of the DA 20-40.

Opinions vary, but the 28-35mm range, covered by the FA 20-35,
is what most users consider "normal" on APS-C.

mecrox · 11-02-2013, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

But heck, it's already faster than Pentax's 21mm PRIME. It's only a stop slower than Pentax's 40mm prime. Of course, in the middle it's likely 1.5 stops slower than the 31mm, but it's also a small lens, and no one knows anything about it's IQ anyway... and IQ is king.

Weel, that depends on whether they're being a little creative with the f numbers and whether the lens manages to make the standard 49 mm diameter of the other Limited lenses. The 15mm is f4, the 21mm is f3.2 so how come they manage get squeeze f2.8 from 20mm? It'll be a slight pain if it isn't 49mm, though, because a single filter size across the Limiteds is mighty convenient.

**jatrax** · 11-02-2013, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by mecrox

It'll be a slight pain if it isn't 49mm, though, because a single filter size across the Limiteds is mighty convenient.

+1. One of the big attractions for me was the limited lenses fit right in with my F 28mm and F 50mm and DFA 100mm. A whole range of primes from 15mm to 100mm and all 49mm filters.

zany225 · 11-02-2013, 05:50 PM

I would guess filter size would be 58mm after seeing comparison size to FA 31mm
(or the smallest could be 55mm, but I don't think it will be.)

ElJamoquio · 11-02-2013, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

If you use it the way most people seem to use it nowadays, on APS-C
(9 of the most recent 10 reviews on SMC Pentax-FA 20-35mm F4 AL Reviews - FA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database),
then it will become what you described as "normal-ish" in the context of the DA 20-40.

Opinions vary, but the 28-35mm range, covered by the FA 20-35,
is what most users consider "normal" on APS-C.

I don't disagree with anything you said, but the fact of the matter is the lens, including the zoom range, was designed for 35mm.

Comparing it to the zoom range of something designed for APS-C is fine of course but was outside the scope of what I was describing IMO.

**NaClH2O** · 11-02-2013, 07:30 PM

I own the FA 20-35 and like it A LOT. I don't do a lot of street shooting but I can see that it would make a great street shooter. I use it mostly for gardens and architecture. Which is where the new 20-40 would fit in. Nice light and unobtrusive. What's not to like about this focal length? I would maybe even consider it if it as at least as good close focusing as the FA 20-35. WR would be a nice bonus but not a deal killer if not. I'm not that excited about the DC motor since much of the time I'm manually focusing the FA 20-35. But anyway, my point was that 20-35 (40) is a good focal range on ASPC cameras.

NaCl(small, light and unobtrusive doesn't hurt either)H2O

**Digitalis** · 11-02-2013, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by NaClH2O

I own the FA 20-35 and like it A LOT.

Hardly surprising, there are only two Pentax prime lenses in the 20~28mm focal length category that produce acceptable image quality for my tastes - and they are all manual focus and difficult to come by. This zoom lens if they make improvements on the older FA 20-35mm CA issues I think pentax will have a real winner on their hands. I own the FA31 but If I bought this lens I would keep it - those two lenses are for different purposes the way I see it.

ogl · 11-02-2013, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by lytrytyr

The FA 20-35 is still on the market in Japan, for JPY 84,800:

smc PENTAX-FA 20-35mm F4AL: ??? | RICOH IMAGING

But it's unreal to order in Europe and USA for many years.

fuent104 · 11-02-2013, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

20-35 on 35mm is wide angle in my view.

I agree. This new lens, on paper, makes no sense to me. It is neither particularly wide nor long. did anyone wake up oday saying "I wish I had a 40mm f4 for my spa- camera?" I just don't see any gap that its filled by this lens, other than maybe the size factor. But f4 is SLOW, and there is no proof that it will be great wide open. I can't imagine paying more than $350 for su h a lens.

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11-02-2013, 02:48 PM	#286
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by The Kurly One I thought that DA lenses were designed for APSC sensors? That is correct. Originally posted by The Kurly One If they were going to make a FF move wouldn't new lenses cover the it? That's what the D FA lenses on the Russian rumor are all about: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/240639-pentax-ricoh...ml#post2553568

11-02-2013, 03:33 PM	#287
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by bxf To those who find the zoom range somewhat limited: keep in mind that although the zoom ratio is only 2:1, at the indicated focal length range there is a 28 degree difference in the angle of view, as compared to a 10 degree difference for a 70-150 zoom, for example. I tend to look at it from 'what other lenses are similar'. For instance, the 8-16 Sigma is only a 2:1 but it's quite wide. The 300-800 sigma is only ~2.5:1 but it's quite a telephoto. In the regime of 'normal-ish' lenses like this one, 20-40 would be the shortest ratio 'normal' zoom lens I'm aware of on the market today. But heck, it's already faster than Pentax's 21mm PRIME. It's only a stop slower than Pentax's 40mm prime. Of course, in the middle it's likely 1.5 stops slower than the 31mm, but it's also a small lens, and no one knows anything about it's IQ anyway... and IQ is king.

11-02-2013, 03:49 PM	#288
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by ElJamoquio In the regime of 'normal-ish' lenses like this one, 20-40 would be the shortest ratio 'normal' zoom lens I'm aware of on the market today. The FA 20-35 is still on the market in Japan, for JPY 84,800: smc PENTAX-FA 20-35mm F4AL: ??? \| RICOH IMAGING

11-02-2013, 03:56 PM	#289
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by lytrytyr The FA 20-35 is still on the market in Japan, for JPY 84,800: smc PENTAX-FA 20-35mm F4AL: ??? \| RICOH IMAGING 20-35 on 35mm is wide angle in my view.

11-02-2013, 03:59 PM	#290
robbiec Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Cork Photos: Albums Posts: 1,882	IQ is king but some on here want the impossible. I can see where Pentax are going lens wise now, usable size, usable aperture wrapped in gorgeously detailed bodies. The rest of the market is going big, Pentax are following their traditionally small but massive bang for buck IQ wise. I was chatting with a visiting PRO photographer (stock model shooting, circa 25,000 images a month) at my club and he had a 5D III with a 85 f/1.2 mounted. I put my K-5 with 77 beside it and it was dwarfed, one question asked, what's the typical aperture you set when taking a portrait? Between f/2 and f/2.8 was the reply. So there fellow forumers is the answer.. Pentax design lenses to be usable from wide open without sacrificing or encountering weight / handling issues. They actually want you to sling your K whatever on your shoulder, take a walk and enable you to create some images that will make you want to take more and better ones. Not to design lenses that are so big or expensive or so difficult to use that you won't be taking them out. I like this little zoom, as someone mentioned earlier, a street shooting ninja zoom

11-02-2013, 04:21 PM	#291
zany225 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Corvallis, OR Photos: Albums Posts: 247	Yes, I agree. I love this lens and also hate this lens simultaneously. Love it because of its features but hate it because its price. :P Moreover, regarding to releasing this lens, it is a great news for me because it seems Ricoh still do not dump cropped-sensor camera sensor in a couple years after they release FF soon. So there will be more options for buyers and users what kind of camera, either cropped-sensor or FF, is appropriate for them to use and spend money for. Of course, walking around shooting like me and not do much portrait still don't want to spend more money for bigger camera and bigger lenses. Just capture memory in my life so this is just enough. But, in long term, if FF price drop down to reasonable price I will re-think about it for sure.

11-02-2013, 04:47 PM	#292
lytrytyr Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2011 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,310	Originally posted by ElJamoquio 20-35 on 35mm is wide angle in my view. If you use it the way most people seem to use it nowadays, on APS-C (9 of the most recent 10 reviews on SMC Pentax-FA 20-35mm F4 AL Reviews - FA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database), then it will become what you described as "normal-ish" in the context of the DA 20-40. Opinions vary, but the 28-35mm range, covered by the FA 20-35, is what most users consider "normal" on APS-C.

11-02-2013, 05:24 PM	#293
mecrox Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Oxford, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,375	Originally posted by ElJamoquio But heck, it's already faster than Pentax's 21mm PRIME. It's only a stop slower than Pentax's 40mm prime. Of course, in the middle it's likely 1.5 stops slower than the 31mm, but it's also a small lens, and no one knows anything about it's IQ anyway... and IQ is king. Weel, that depends on whether they're being a little creative with the f numbers and whether the lens manages to make the standard 49 mm diameter of the other Limited lenses. The 15mm is f4, the 21mm is f3.2 so how come they manage get squeeze f2.8 from 20mm? It'll be a slight pain if it isn't 49mm, though, because a single filter size across the Limiteds is mighty convenient.

11-02-2013, 05:37 PM	#294
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by mecrox It'll be a slight pain if it isn't 49mm, though, because a single filter size across the Limiteds is mighty convenient. +1. One of the big attractions for me was the limited lenses fit right in with my F 28mm and F 50mm and DFA 100mm. A whole range of primes from 15mm to 100mm and all 49mm filters.

11-02-2013, 05:50 PM	#295
zany225 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Corvallis, OR Photos: Albums Posts: 247	I would guess filter size would be 58mm after seeing comparison size to FA 31mm (or the smallest could be 55mm, but I don't think it will be.)

11-02-2013, 06:42 PM	#296
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by lytrytyr If you use it the way most people seem to use it nowadays, on APS-C (9 of the most recent 10 reviews on SMC Pentax-FA 20-35mm F4 AL Reviews - FA Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database), then it will become what you described as "normal-ish" in the context of the DA 20-40. Opinions vary, but the 28-35mm range, covered by the FA 20-35, is what most users consider "normal" on APS-C. I don't disagree with anything you said, but the fact of the matter is the lens, including the zoom range, was designed for 35mm. Comparing it to the zoom range of something designed for APS-C is fine of course but was outside the scope of what I was describing IMO.

11-02-2013, 07:30 PM	#297
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	I own the FA 20-35 and like it A LOT. I don't do a lot of street shooting but I can see that it would make a great street shooter. I use it mostly for gardens and architecture. Which is where the new 20-40 would fit in. Nice light and unobtrusive. What's not to like about this focal length? I would maybe even consider it if it as at least as good close focusing as the FA 20-35. WR would be a nice bonus but not a deal killer if not. I'm not that excited about the DC motor since much of the time I'm manually focusing the FA 20-35. But anyway, my point was that 20-35 (40) is a good focal range on ASPC cameras. NaCl(small, light and unobtrusive doesn't hurt either)H2O

11-02-2013, 07:42 PM	#298
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	Originally posted by NaClH2O I own the FA 20-35 and like it A LOT. Hardly surprising, there are only two Pentax prime lenses in the 20~28mm focal length category that produce acceptable image quality for my tastes - and they are all manual focus and difficult to come by. This zoom lens if they make improvements on the older FA 20-35mm CA issues I think pentax will have a real winner on their hands. I own the FA31 but If I bought this lens I would keep it - those two lenses are for different purposes the way I see it.

11-02-2013, 10:43 PM	#299
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by lytrytyr The FA 20-35 is still on the market in Japan, for JPY 84,800: smc PENTAX-FA 20-35mm F4AL: ??? \| RICOH IMAGING But it's unreal to order in Europe and USA for many years.

11-02-2013, 11:06 PM	#300
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by ElJamoquio 20-35 on 35mm is wide angle in my view. I agree. This new lens, on paper, makes no sense to me. It is neither particularly wide nor long. did anyone wake up oday saying "I wish I had a 40mm f4 for my spa- camera?" I just don't see any gap that its filled by this lens, other than maybe the size factor. But f4 is SLOW, and there is no proof that it will be great wide open. I can't imagine paying more than $350 for su h a lens.