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11-05-2013, 04:03 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by deus ursus Quote
Maybe it's insanely expensive beyond imagination? That would be a surprise. :-)
Probably not as surprising as if it was inexpensive!

11-05-2013, 05:08 PM - 1 Like   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I have now heard three times that Ricoh has stopped (Pentax) projects in process to rework and make them better (Ricoh) products. This first came in a high-level, private conversation about the vacuum of information and products in the spring and summer. I am seriously, deeply encouraged to hear this again. It fits my concept of where Ricoh wants to take Pentax and it fits the overall culture of quality of Ricoh globally. I am convinced we are going to be very happy and I believe we will see a significant new product or a rework of several existing products announced monthly for a few YEARS.
:

It's the language barrier.

It doesn't mean "Pentax" was doing something "sloppy" and "good old daddy Ricoh came to teach them a few good values he learned in the big boys game", like it sounds from asahiman's quotes and other explanations around the net.

As I understood from Pentax Australia contacts recently (and which changed my perspective too), the issue is that many concepts Pentax already had, have gone through a comprehensive revising process. Because the situation has changed and the new investment came, new people came, old concepts albeit being great, can be improved in new circumstances and when all new factors are added. It's quite normal to happen.

Two things aligned together: Pentax team's own desire to polish up their lines (as they have always imagined them, but never given a chance), and Ricoh's own that they are not in hurry to please anyone in particular outside the company. Regarding the "old Pentax K-3" to be introduced in 2012, it was there, but only as a last resort and preferably, not to be shown at all. Ricoh management insisted it to be there just in case, but in fact it was pulled back by engineers as they believed tweaked K5 in the form of K5II will do enough to buy them some time.

"Pentax" and "Ricoh" seem to have a very similar engineering culture and are one team now.

Last edited by Uluru; 11-05-2013 at 05:39 PM.
11-05-2013, 05:37 PM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
The planed 645II for end of 2013 is stopped..
FF project(s) are more relevant for the prosperity of the brand than the 645D II project.
It's as simple as that.
They've started development late and need every extra par of hands they can find to make it as sooner as possible.
11-05-2013, 06:42 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
As I understood from Pentax Australia contacts recently (and which changed my perspective too), the issue is that many concepts Pentax already had, have gone through a comprehensive revising process. Because the situation has changed and the new investment came, new people came, old concepts albeit being great, can be improved in new circumstances and when all new factors are added. It's quite normal to happen.
Glad to hear your perspective has changed. One large (and largely unseen) benefit of Ricoh is much more modern, machine-based manufacturing processes than Pentax had under Hoya. Being machine based such processes require capital investment which Hoya was reluctant to provide. Ricoh has extensive expertise in this area in addition to the capital.

It probably takes some time, however, to convince engineers to design for the process in addition to designing for the outcome. Once the lesson is learned and the products are well-received (Ricoh GR, K5IIs, for instance) the engineering team - the entire team, top to bottom - becomes optimistic and assumes success. Assumptive success is a rare quality and hard to build in a company. Let's hope . . . .

11-05-2013, 07:28 PM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Yes there was. I seem to remember one poster (Uluru?) indicating that they knew about it's existence and that it was constant f/2.8 and remarkable for it's range, something like 16-70.

So that lens - whatever the reality of its specs - could be one surprise.

So:

1) Wide Q zoom
2) HD limited zoom
3) 2.8 mid zoom

Could be the the surprises.
I thought that the 20-40 and the 08 Q (which you mentioned) were already the 'confirmed' "surprises".

Anything more or less and I'll be surprised.
11-05-2013, 07:29 PM - 1 Like   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rorschach Quote
Maybe she is taking a cleavage photo
With bounce flash.
11-05-2013, 08:11 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Glad to hear your perspective has changed. One large (and largely unseen) benefit of Ricoh is much more modern, machine-based manufacturing processes than Pentax had under Hoya. Being machine based such processes require capital investment which Hoya was reluctant to provide. Ricoh has extensive expertise in this area in addition to the capital.

It probably takes some time, however, to convince engineers to design for the process in addition to designing for the outcome. Once the lesson is learned and the products are well-received (Ricoh GR, K5IIs, for instance) the engineering team - the entire team, top to bottom - becomes optimistic and assumes success. Assumptive success is a rare quality and hard to build in a company. Let's hope . . . .
I'm sure you're right about the additional production capability that Ricoh has brought to Pentax products, but I'm a little bemused by the notion that the Pentax engineers needed convincing about any such change. Maybe it's the engineer in me bridling at the suggestion, but I would have thought that processes like 5-axis machining and electrical discharge machining for the mechanical componentry and die-making would have been par for the course, not to mention CIM surface-mount electronics, all of which are designed for using CAD-CAM workstations and readily-available software. It may be that all the capability under Hoya was old and comparatively low output, but I wouldn't have thought the processes themselves were radically different, but maybe I'm just not in touch with that sector (I used to do work for the aero-space industry, among others, but only very minor work in optics). I suspect that the main thing Ricoh brought to the engineering team was a vision that validated their expertise, rather than relegated it to secondary importance whilst waiting to sell it off.
11-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by tabl10s Quote
Man, she has a long neck.
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
I still think the shoulders aren't where they should and the neck is surprisingly long.
She certainly looks grotesque and I am not sure if I ever would want to meet her. Oh well at least her boobies are in the approximate right place. Other parts we don't know. If her neck and shoulders are any indication... perhaps I better don't go there.

That's the problem with these gifted picture manipulators, they are very good technically but a fair few have a poor understanding of spatial dimensions or sense of scale.

Greetings

11-05-2013, 09:42 PM   #84
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I was thinking maybe she has her shoulder hunched up and laughing head forward, but the post processor has removed all the skin wrinkles and moved skin boundaries (as per standard glam shots) without giving it the thought of its effect on dimensionality.

As for the photo show, let's hope they bring the 645DII with an interchangable back and the option for a 645 sized foveon sensor now that would be a surprise
11-05-2013, 09:44 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
With bounce flash.
"Bounce flash"

*snerk*

Yes, it certainly would be.
11-05-2013, 10:23 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
A compact camera with fixed lens is also possible.
FF comрact camera?
11-05-2013, 11:30 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by crewl1 Quote
Maybe the surprise will be a Limited Limited Zebra version.
Not my pic.
Ooh, now there's an idea for a revamped D-FA line! They're already heading in the Tak style direction with the 20-40.

I look forward to hearing the reports from the show, both about Pentax/Ricoh, and the lensless camera that causes neck extensions when used.
11-06-2013, 01:09 PM - 3 Likes   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by Schraubstock Quote
She certainly looks grotesque and I am not sure if I ever would want to meet her. Oh well at least her boobies are in the approximate right place. Other parts we don't know. If her neck and shoulders are any indication... perhaps I better don't go there.
(...)
You are very rude to Marie who doesn't deserve such comments -actually, nobody would.
11-06-2013, 03:03 PM   #89
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I don't think any of these comments are directed at the model -- but rather at the retouching artist. I agree some of the features in that photo seem inaccurately arranged.
11-06-2013, 08:17 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
FF project(s) are more relevant for the prosperity of the brand than the 645D II project.
It's as simple as that.
They've started development late and need every extra par of hands they can find to make it as sooner as possible.
Thatīs all right,but it is a long long story........Hoya has destroyed so much.....i can tell you storys about Pentax,Hoya and more....but it is too much and to internal....But,let us see in the light,together with Asahi Pentax and Ricoh....lots of nice things are comming,Ricoh was the last chance and they did it,everything looks good
Best regards
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