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01-02-2014, 03:15 AM   #331
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I only read the first few paragraphs (crucify me later) and haven't read thie entire thread but I already get the feeling that a FF Pentax will be a mirrorless like the Sony A7, hence the straight to the center pitch remarks. Hell, I reckon the 645D MKII will be mirrorlesss and about the same size as a D800 with grip. The A7r must be sending a message loud and strong here.

01-02-2014, 03:18 AM   #332
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
These concepts are not photographical, but were present in art history long before photography. Landscape painting had started as a sub-genre of portrait painting, same as every other genre had started from portrait art as well.
Landscape paining is NOT a sub genre of portrait painting. Cave paintings were probably the first form of public art and yet there are no portraits anywhere to be found.
01-02-2014, 03:19 AM   #333
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Sigh... Didn't Pentax/Ricoh stated several times the "full frame" will be a DSLR?
01-02-2014, 03:20 AM   #334
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Some of us do show some kind of mazochism

Secondly, besides marketshares, Ricoh would for sure loose a lot in credibility if they finally don't issue Arlésienne's FF

01-02-2014, 03:30 AM   #335
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
For me, FF is just my reality check if anybody out there is actually investing what it needs to bring Pentax back. And the interview tells me: not yet. They still try to run Pentax in the blacks which is only possible in a way slowly loosing further market share.
This is untrue; Ricoh Imaging is (slowly) growing, and is profitable. But I agree with the message that FF is no holy grail (or silver bullet), and that Ricoh won't lose money just to make us happy.

This apparent "lack of vision" exists only because people are keeping their mouths shut, by the way.
01-02-2014, 03:55 AM   #336
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I agree with your observations Falk.

Happy New Year !

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Thanks for your opinion, but I decided to apply a different perspective. I don't speculate about individual manager's options. Because as a customer, I really should NOT care.

I just analyze performance.

There was a time where many used Pentax as their only system. A time where Pentax, Oly and Minolta/Sony owned 5-6% of the market. A time where Pentax made big waves with the K10D and were gaining market share. A time where Pentax actually innovated and where it would have been logical and about right in timing to add an FF body. If only to keep K mount users happy.

Now, only few Pentaxians remain with Pentax as their only system. The majority left, many use it as a second system now because cameras like the K-5 are very nice. But market share dropped to 1.5% (my best estimate), almost extinct outside Japan.

For me, FF is just my reality check if anybody out there is actually investing what it needs to bring Pentax back. And the interview tells me: not yet. They still try to run Pentax in the blacks which is only possible in a way slowly loosing further market share.

To be clear here: FF is no holy grail. It will be a minor implementation detail used by ALL remaining SLR bodies very soon. Paired with f/4 zooms and f/2 primes, won't be more expensive or bulkier than APSC today and nobody will actually speak about sensor size then. APSC would be very similiar if it continued to exist which I doubt will (because of cameras like the RX100m2 when becoming cheap). My problem is the time Pentax goes FF everybody else will already be at the next party. And missing that next party is what Pentax will most likely not be able to absorb in loosing just another percent market share ...

So, in summary: the interview makes me worry because nobody currently seems to want to invest and there is a clear lack of vision what to do next.
01-02-2014, 04:06 AM   #337
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Could we have some more crisps during soon-to-come CES ???

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/ces-2014-what-to-expe...e-show-1193036
01-02-2014, 05:09 AM   #338
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I disagree with Falconeye.

First. The assumption that must DSLR users owns more than one systems. Even here, on this forum, where most of us are enthusiast, I've has seen a lot of people upgrading from K-10, K-20 directly to K-3.

Second. The first camera developed under Ricoh ownership of Pentax is K-3. It is to early to say that Pentax will be always late in implementing new technologies. More so, because Ricoh has stated that they will develop some new technologies based on the SR system. And here, Nikon and Canon are left behind.

Third. The 1.5% of market share for Pentax can be right for now, or not. But looking at the DPR poll, things can change. But a market share smaller than 10% of DSLR for FF camera is correct, and for the large mass of consumers, it is simply not a necessity. For enthusiasts, professionals, and more for brand prestige, a FF camera is certainly necessary. But look at Olympus OM-D E-M1, at his quality and success. With a 4/3 sensor.


Last edited by JimmyDranox; 01-02-2014 at 05:23 AM.
01-02-2014, 06:09 AM   #339
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I disagree with Falconeye.

First. The assumption that must DSLR users owns more than one systems. Even here, on this forum, where most of us are enthusiast, I've has seen a lot of people upgrading from K-10, K-20 directly to K-3.

Second. The first camera developed under Ricoh ownership of Pentax is K-3. It is to early to say that Pentax will be always late in implementing new technologies..
You are right. Many people confuse sensor size with advanced technologies. FF sensor alone is at the end of the food chain of technology development, where all improvements are seen last, as the digital FF is comprised of technologies firstly built and established into wafers used for other sensor sizes in sufficient quantities. Right now, if all 1/1.7", 2/3" and APS-C sensor production and use cease, and only 35 mm FF is left because of someone's whim, the digital photography market will collapse like a house of cards.

Nikon, Canon and now Sony, are indeed managed by old men, slaves to a format from the past that doesn't help the industry move forward at all because it is technologically linked to the ecosystem of smaller and crucially important imaging sensors sizes. They totally forget the days of film, where production of the 35mm film — which was equivalent of 1/1.7" sensors used in most digicams, or better to say, used everywhere — enabled relatively economical production of the MF and LF film and plates using same technologies. Not vice versa.

What will photography industry experience with the FF push (at the APS-C's expense) is the shrinkage of their overall market even further.

Last edited by Uluru; 01-02-2014 at 06:29 AM.
01-02-2014, 06:10 AM   #340
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
my point simply was that if Pentax immediately released a full frame camera, they wouldn't have to release a single new lens and still have a larger system than the current A7 system available for purchase from day one, even if one doesn't count any of the DA lenses that work perfectly well on FF.
Well currently, Pentax doesn't even have an FF camera, do they? Your hopes are set on Sony suddenly completely stopping in its tracks and Pentax skyrocketing into FF land today.

And I'll ask again, what's even the point in dissing A7/A7r system for not having a big lens line up? Aren't there some bigger issues to be found in that system to moan about? That's a very good sign.
01-02-2014, 06:11 AM   #341
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Cave paintings were probably the first form of public art and yet there are no portraits anywhere to be found.
How about these?

Bradshaw rock paintings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

01-02-2014, 06:43 AM   #342
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Sony has 15 lenses to be released before the end of 2015 on the roadmap.
Sure, Only Not Yet.
01-02-2014, 06:50 AM   #343
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From DPR poll.

Olympus OM-D EM-1. 4 month old, 603 owners (150 per month), 84 ''had it'' (13%)

Sony A7R, 2 1/2 month old, 156 owners (62 per month), 49 ''had it'' (31%) !!!

Pentax K-3, 2.1/2 month old, 207 owners (82 per month), 15 ''had it'' (7%)


Not even Pentax K-500 do not has such a high rate of ''had it'', (I don't want to call it rejection ), as Sony A7R.
01-02-2014, 06:52 AM   #344
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Sure, Only Not Yet.

Re-engineered, Incomparable, Compelling , but Only in Heaven ... any clue for Ricoh's FF ?
01-02-2014, 06:55 AM   #345
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
And I'll ask again, what's even the point in dissing A7/A7r system for not having a big lens line up?
I'm not dissing them at all, that's probably just you projecting your dissing mindset on me… Quite the contrary, my point was that Sony launched their A7 cameras with very few lenses, and so could Pentax.
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