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01-07-2014, 08:34 AM   #451
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
(Interview leading up to photocina 2010 I think? Does anybody else remember that?)
That was what - 40 months ago - and under a different owner? What is Sony's ACTUAL lens roadmap versus Pentax's ACTUAL lens roadmap?

It is all well and good to proclaim that Sony potentially has a winner out there, but to continually and almost gleefully club Pentax users with its (future) success, dominance and eventual stake to the heart of the K-mount is just plain bullying.

01-07-2014, 09:07 AM   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
It is all well and good to proclaim that Sony potentially has a winner out there, but to continually and almost gleefully club Pentax users with its (future) success, dominance and eventual stake to the heart of the K-mount is just plain bullying.
I re-read my own post to which you cut this single line from, and I can't find any Pentax-clubbing anywhere in it:

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
1. The entire FE system is only a mere 2,5 months old.

2. There is only one lens available to order right now, correct? (Sony FE 35mm) (It's a spectacular lens!)

3. Then Pentax would be in the same kind of trouble. The typical sitting-on-a-bunch-of-legacy-glass-Pentaxian doesn't generate much new lens sales either. Pentax themselves already admitted the lens business isn't very interesting. (Interview leading up to photocina 2010 I think? Does anybody else remember that?)
Just for the record: I am a typical sitting-on-a-bunch-of-legacy-glass-Pentaxian. I got more lenses that I dare to admit.

I was reacting to somebody who is claiming that Sony isn't doing all that well. And concluding the A7/A7r is a complete failure, even though the whole system only has existed for 2,5 months yet. Obviously and logically, I don't agree, and there are many arguments for that.


It is you who is making it into some kind of contest with reactions like this:
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That was what - 40 months ago - and under a different owner? What is Sony's ACTUAL lens roadmap versus Pentax's ACTUAL lens roadmap?
But I'll bite anyway. The current Sony FE roadmap has 15 lenses on it, all to be realease before the end of 2015. How many FF lenses does Pentax have to be released?
01-07-2014, 10:22 AM   #453
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
But I'll bite anyway. The current Sony FE roadmap has 15 lenses on it, all to be realease before the end of 2015. How many FF lenses does Pentax have to be released?
I'd say between 1-3 before end of CY 2015, none on the roadmap as specified now. Together with the 40 on the shelf that's not bad.
01-07-2014, 10:51 AM   #454
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
But I'll bite anyway. The current Sony FE roadmap has 15 lenses on it, all to be realease before the end of 2015. How many FF lenses does Pentax have to be released?
How many of those Sigma lenses are with K mount?

01-07-2014, 10:57 AM   #455
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Obviously, Pentax would not publish their "full frame" lens roadmap before officially launching the "full frame" product line. So it's really:
+ a published roadmap with 15 lenses, 2(?) being effectively available
versus
+ about a dozen of "full frame" compatible Pentax lenses currently in production (the condition being to be "adequate"; "very good" and "excellent" replacements could be offered later), third party options and old "full frame" Pentax lenses available second hand; and an internal roadmap.

ElJamoquio, they're closer than you think
01-07-2014, 11:29 AM   #456
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
... A7/A7R cam which is very nice but which isn't bringing much money if not a complete loss leader.
I don't see any possible way it's a loss leader.

The A7r sells for $2300, and contains a FF sensor that Sony Semiconductor sells to other camera vendors for probably between $250 - $400. Even if Sony Semiconductor gave no discount to Sony Imaging (which is not the case,) that body is still bringing a nice per-unit profit. I suspect that camera could sell for $1000 less and still show a nice profit.

Lenses are an issue, but it sounds like Sony may be addressing that. We'll see.
01-07-2014, 03:54 PM   #457
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
I don't see any possible way it's a loss leader.

The A7r sells for $2300, and contains a FF sensor that Sony Semiconductor sells to other camera vendors for probably between $250 - $400. Even if Sony Semiconductor gave no discount to Sony Imaging (which is not the case,) that body is still bringing a nice per-unit profit. I suspect that camera could sell for $1000 less and still show a nice profit.

Lenses are an issue, but it sounds like Sony may be addressing that. We'll see.
I agree - doubt very much that its any kind of loss leader. quite the opposite. I deliberately didn't invest much in lenses for my Nex 6 when i bought it, because there was only slow zooms available for it. But Sony came through in 2013 with 2 nice zooms for the e-mount, a 16-70 Zeiss lens and a Sony G lens 18-105, both f4 i believe. With that kind of recent credibility, i doubt they would short some decent lenses for the A7 series.

Not that i'm a FF fan, but i suspect that it wouldn't' cost Pentax that much to make a FF camera. The sensor would obviously cost 200 or $300 more, but i suspect the basic engineering has already been done, and with a successful K3 to use as a design model and to borrrow from, they are most likely almost there. There is the production costs of setting up the manufacturing dies, ordering material, initial distribution, but all that cost would be there whether the model was an aps dslr or a FF. (i've now debated on both sides of this issue, so one of my posts can't help but be right )
01-07-2014, 06:48 PM   #458
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Obviously, Pentax would not publish their "full frame" lens roadmap before officially launching the "full frame" product line. So it's really:
+ a published roadmap with 15 lenses, 2(?) being effectively available
versus
+ about a dozen of "full frame" compatible Pentax lenses currently in production (the condition being to be "adequate"; "very good" and "excellent" replacements could be offered later), third party options and old "full frame" Pentax lenses available second hand; and an internal roadmap.

ElJamoquio, they're closer than you think
I hope so! Spring 2014 would be a nice surprise.

I think they're going to intro the camera with at least one normal zoom, and a few months later trickle in a few more new lenses...

01-08-2014, 12:18 AM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote

I was reacting to somebody who is claiming that Sony isn't doing all that well. And concluding the A7/A7r is a complete failure, even though the whole system only has existed for 2,5 months yet. Obviously and logically, I don't agree, and there are many arguments for that.
If that's my post you're talking about you may want to read again and think.
01-09-2014, 03:00 PM   #460
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On the funny side, I just noticed the thumbnail image for the entire thread
01-12-2014, 12:30 PM   #461
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I suggest you make it like this... digital

QuoteOriginally posted by leonsroar Quote
M : We are going to boldly challenge the FF market. ...

M: Well, if discussing about whether we go with FF or not, yes we will. However, it is our understanding that it doesn’t make sense if we spoil development of other mounts’ cameras and lenses. It is our current challenge.



This is a message that i'd like to go through Mr MURANO' ears :

In about 24h on my flickr galery, this image got more than 5000 views : i guess it means something interesting
Of course KAF2 instead of M42
01-12-2014, 03:41 PM   #462
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote


This is a message that i'd like to go through Mr MURANO' ears :

In about 24h on my flickr galery, this image got more than 5000 views : i guess it means something interesting
Of course KAF2 instead of M42
Hooray.
Carpe diem Pentax!
01-13-2014, 05:25 AM   #463
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11300 views, after about 48h only
Btw, shot taken with K-3 and DA20-40mm Ltd @ 40mm f/4.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 01-13-2014 at 05:35 AM.
01-13-2014, 05:37 AM   #464
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
11300 views, after about 48h only
Very nice :-) But I think it's because you got explored more than that the whole world is waiting for the second coming of the Spotmatic

(I got my first picture in Explore a few weeks ago (December 9: White Morning | Flickr - Photo Sharing!) and it quickly passed 10000 views and is now at 13329 with 138 favorites. My second most popular image has 174 views and 5 favorites…)

BTW: Nice rendering by the DA20-40!

Last edited by gazonk; 01-13-2014 at 06:25 AM.
01-13-2014, 01:42 PM   #465
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Yes, that explored effect is right.

Thinking again, the threat of a new FF Ricoh Mount doesn't seem to be dead if you interpret Mr Murato's telling./.. Indeed, why should they bother about "spoiling other mounts cameras" otherwise...
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