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12-22-2013, 01:29 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by jimr-pdx Quote
will crack under the strain
I've been waiting a good while now, a large truck load of Pentax filler to arrive, so I can in fact repair myself.

12-22-2013, 02:54 PM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy75 Quote
Canon AF and L glass selection is still outstanding. Same with service and support and rental options.
That's the whole point of this post isn't it, to get me to try Canon product? nice try... in my price range, any Canon available feels cheap, has inferior specs, is lower resolution and has less dynamic range, less magnification of wildlife, and a lower burst rate, isn't water resitent, need I go on and on? ... are you trying to ruin my life? I don't need a lot of rental options, I can afford everything I need. No picking stuff up and dropping it off a rental places for me. It's on my shelf, ready to go.
12-22-2013, 03:07 PM   #78
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Interview with Chief Sales & Marketing Officer / Ricoh Imaging Japan

Ok, you're looking at it from an enthusiast perspective which I can relate to. And yes, Pentax has historically catered well to this market. And this is why I shoot with it.

If Pentax decided to capture professional interest with a FF cam, a lot of stuff would need improving - most of which has already been mentioned.

The only qualms I have with Pentax is suspect SDM reliability, price increases without added value and that it took 2 months to fix my cam. Beyond those items I love it for my photography needs. Aspiring pros and other users may not agree. And I was putting their hat on for a few posts.

Hopefully my position is more clear.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That's the whole point of this post isn't it, to get me to try Canon product? nice try... in my price range, any Canon available feels cheap, has inferior specs, is lower resolution and has less dynamic range, less magnification of wildlife, and a lower burst rate, isn't water resitent, need I go on and on? ... are you trying to ruin my life? I don't need a lot of rental options, I can afford everything I need. No picking stuff up and dropping it off a rental places for me. It's on my shelf, ready to go.

Last edited by krebsy75; 12-22-2013 at 04:56 PM.
12-22-2013, 03:09 PM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy75 Quote
Monochrome: I believe a successful FF venture will require market share from Canikon. You don't believe this? Where will revenue come from to support R&D for a new product line? The Q, in comparison, is a dabble effort. Last numbers I saw showed the Q with few sales outside of Japan.

Of course, most of us have domestic (USA for me) blinders on.
I believe FF volume is small compared to APSc. Nikon and Canon have apparently ceded APSc flagship to others and want to command the entire FF segment, what little sales there are. Pentax need not take much market share from the total dSLR share of Canon and Nikon to have a significant gain for themselves, at relative unit volumes.

And since they do not have a massive dealer and support network to maintain and show at this time no apparent desire to build one, it appears Pentax can compete with more features at a price point and make money.

Again, thinking constant incremental growth spread over a very long time (like 5 - 7 years) gives a much different potential outcome than thinking Pentax must introduce a category-killer, single-point-in-time FF camera that takes 10 points share from Canon and Nikon combined in one year. Much, much of the technology in the K3, of course, can mkigrate into a FF and the 645, as well, so on a unit cost accounting basis, as long as a FF would increase unit volume and not steal from APSc, it would actually lower costs and make Pentax better able to compete.

I still say they don't want more than 10% of the non-compact camera market - probably much less - because the investment to add and support the incremental units is very large.

12-22-2013, 03:16 PM   #80
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A few clues for the future...

Hi leonsroar, first of all : thank you very much for the informations, and the valuable effort

This time i will NOT join the moaners, and other visibly anti-pentax posters, that occasionnally come here to try pissing bad news around.

As already said by a few other people here, i don't think that this kind of "Christmas interview" has any other purpose than to give some positive strokes to us, pentax users. It definitely cannot be the moment for official announces at this time of the year.

Moreover, all that Mr Murano is telling us, do indeed confirm most of the recent "leaks" from our russian friends given on this forum early october, 2013. This is the second positive point, and not the least !

So, i will just go to the few points that seem to carry new pieces of informations :

1- K-mount mirrorless : the concept is not dead, and that is very good news ; since the Ricoh's top management were earlier reported to kind of "hate" the K-01...

2- Regarding FF, even if the specs are not fixed yet, they have clearly choosen - or at least they do prefer - SLR type.
Secondly, they have developped "brief time frame", which means high shutter-speed - and we then can imagine 1/8000s + 1/250s flash-synch, like the PZ-1 serie was able to reach beginning of this century.
Third, they don't intend to release a "cooked egg" FF, with no long term strategy, nor sufficient game products to avoid marketing impasse : this is also imo, a very important clue of Ricoh's serious approach to new product lines, and we have to aplaude !

3- Mr Murano - for the first time in my ears comming from Ricoh's management - , is making strong reference to loyal customers, and don't want to decieve them : that is once again, very good news for Pentax brand, as well as for Pentax users !

4- 645D II (my assumption) : confirmed, and should be released very soon ; cheers !

5- New GR compact bodies : this is very interesting ; the big success of APS-C GR could bring a complete new product-line within a few years. If i could make a wish : 35-40mm /2.8 and 50-65mm/2 equivalent would be winning fl.

6- Cross brand fertilisation : that's also good news. You never are stronger than when you go for team-jobs. In this allegation, we can imagine new areas in cooperation with e.g. Sigma for Foveon sensor, Tamron for K-mount new releases, and so on. See what Sony is doing with it's "new FF A line".

7- Environment care : Bravo, there is always something to be done in this respect. Congratulations Mr Murano ; i am a proud Pentax owner !

All in all, this is a very cosy interview with real and fresh pieces of informations, giving some kind of authentic feedback, calling confidence altogether.
Thank You again Mr Murano.


Last edited by Zygonyx; 12-22-2013 at 03:33 PM.
12-22-2013, 03:55 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I just love it when a 5 Post User comes on here and makes sweeping statements about Pentax failures without apparently having touched the products.
In fairness, the "5 Post User" has provided reviews for a number of Pentax products,
and for those items with which I am personally familiar (e.g., K24/2.8, M100/2.8),
I can say that the reviews show a good knowledge of the products and their capabilities.
12-22-2013, 04:00 PM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
That's the whole point of this post isn't it, to get me to try Canon product?
Wait, who's trying to get you to try a Canon? Let me know, I'll slap them around for you.
12-22-2013, 04:13 PM   #83
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I'm not one of the "sky is falling because Pentax offers no FF camera" crowd. I'm into sports, so APS-C is a better compromise for me.

Ricoh/Pentax has improved their AF in the K-3, but the trend needs to go a lot further, until AF performance is not mentioned as a negative when comparing Pentax to other brands.

The last thing any Pentaxian wants is Pentax producing a FF model in what is a limited & becoming more-crowded FF marketplace, and then to lose money on it. I'd rather have the company become more financially healthy first by offering high-quality APS-C models. Without Nikon offering a D400 model (and in a currently weakened financial position), and with the 70D being mainly about video, this is a good time for Pentax to work on their strengths in the APS-C marketplace, and then expand into FF when their financial base is strong.

Of much more importance is filling in holes in the Pentax lens range (faster zooms & primes, quick-focusing longer zooms, TC). And getting a sufficent user base to interest 3rd party lens makers to again offer K-mount versions. Unless that trend reverses, the sky could still fall.

Dan.


Last edited by dosdan; 12-22-2013 at 04:19 PM.
12-22-2013, 04:25 PM   #84
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Ian Fleming couldn't have done better with the name "Murano", for someone working for a company that makes valuable glass, could he?

That aside, I find it fascinating the number of times people inject the A7 into an unrelated conversation. Who was it said that there's nothing so zealous as a reformed rake?

Now I've got the K-3, any future 35mm sensor Pentax (let alone that of any other maker) will have to be spectacular to get me interested (I don't see the A7 as "spectacular" right now). Then again, I thought that when I graduated from a K20D to a K-5, so maybe I'll just say I'm happy to wait and see.
12-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy75 Quote
I haven't used the AF in the K-3. Having said that, most users report that it's slightly evolutionary as opposed to... Most seem to think that smaller AF points represent the biggest improvement.

SDM slows AF down quite a bit. So that remains a big part of the problem.
If evolutionary mean '80% of my shots are in focus', and my shots right now are in low light low contrast moving subjects, then I'll take it. In good light my K-3 was giving me focus almost all the time. That is with a variety of lenses.

The choke point for Pentax focus is the speed of the lenses. The screw drive or sdm mechanisms are slow in certain conditions.
12-22-2013, 04:52 PM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by krebsy75 Quote
I personally would like to see Pentax refine their APS-C offerings and technologies than dabble in FF right now. Shifting focus away from APS-C may result in Fuji, Olympus, Sony, etc. taking the 3rd place lead.
If they can annihilate the competition within APS-C they'll have a model in place for a successful FF initiative. Right now it appears APS-C is still up for grabs.

I totally agree. APS-C is the forefront where the future of digital photography should be firmly established.

See what others have made, and make it better.
  1. A mirrorless camera, but classically styled and better in every respect than Fuji X100s or Leica X2.
  2. Then a compact, thin DSLR (even a mirrorless) that with any DA Limited lens is better choice than Leica X-Vario.
  3. New flavours of the GR, say GR35, GR43, or GR50. All at the same price — choose your favourite, or two, or all three, and Bob's your uncle.
  4. Then the GR-type camera with a fixed zoom lens.
The cost of making all such GRs is then so low because everything except for lens is shared.
Etc.
12-22-2013, 05:14 PM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I just love it when a 5 Post User comes on here and makes sweeping statements about Pentax failures without apparently having touched the products.

Pentax made few if any real investments in the company, the processes, of manufacturing, distributing and marketing photographic tools from roughly 2006 through roughly 2012, and they were behind the automation curve in 2006. To expect Ricoh to instantly design, manufacture, market and distribute cutting-edge cameras and a full line of lenses (while throwing away the warehouse stock of existing batch-run product) is simply benighted. It's the kind of thing people with 5 posts come on here and write then go away for six months or a year or forever.

Pentax doesn't need more than a point of Canon share and a point of Nikon share in dSLR's, plus Q for growth and 645 for professional halo to have a real, going concern. That will be enough cash flow to build out small support and repair functions, co-marketing deals and sensible sales forces in the West. It will be enough cash flow to make competitive cameras with all the Pentax DNA that are different. I don't believe Pentax wants to compete in the global professional market just yet - they don't have the money or cash flow to support the infrastructure. So they don't need the analog for L glass and they can fix SDM in some other way.

They aren't taking a break here the way Pentax did - they're already working on the next release - the next step - the next improvement. I'd bet the next body hammers the flash / shutter issues. So forget about the Canon/Nikon argument - Pentax is not going there. You guys have to stop thinking single-point-in-time and like this is the old Pentax. That's gone. The K3 is just a step, and they've already taken it - it's behind them! These guys are classic grinders, day after day after day, a point here, a point there, for days and weeks and months and quarters and years and decades - for twenty years.

We already have Canon and Nikon - they're great cameras and good companies. We don't need another, and we don't need wacky Sony hipster technology either. But we do need a third traditional, full-line camera company. Believe it or not, Canon and Nikon need Pentax as well. Two companies owning an entire market attracts regulatory scrutiny by EU and USA anti-trust departments. A viable third company keeps them away. Maybe there's a reason Nikon seems to have left the APSc field open for Pentax.

I honestly don't know how much clearer the interviewee can be. They're going to release a FF camera. It will come later then some want and sooner than most think. It will be Pentax DNA, it will be ready for prime time and it will be a great camera.

Sign's down. Pentax is a fastball down the middle. Sony is a curve ball (actually, to flog the metaphor, a knuckleball).

I love a mano-a-mano challenge.
The trouble with this argument is that it paints Ricoh as a jackal, hanging around the kills and hoping for a morsel after the big beasts have had their fill. A point here and a point more of sales there by doing things a little differently, but not (from your argument) differently to the point where more than modest sums have to be invested in the business by way of R&D or marketing and infrastructure.

The risk is that if either Canon or Nikon or both suddenly start switching their lower tiers of consumer cameras to short-registration mounts and EVFs, and overall to smaller bodies, then Ricoh will be left high and dry. They'll be stuck trying to sell those old school DSLRs but, because they've been travelling light, they won't have the R&D to follow suit smoothly and quickly and will be very late to the party again, with all the best seats already taken. So, in this regard, Ricoh are placing their business in hock to others. Hmmn.

It's not a very appealing picture really, being barely a step above parasitism. I've no idea what Ricoh's plans are but I hope they are more than this or it's quite hard to see things working out at all. If a company talks about being bold and different while in practice doing and investing the bare minimum to keep the show on the road, consumers will soon rumble it. Sooner or later, I think Ricoh are going to have to come out fighting and stake some serious claims or they or at least Pentax will simply fade away.

I don't have anything against Sony myself. They've been hyped up recently for sure, but if they play their cards right I don't see why they shouldn't make quite a success of their cameras. They have the pick of the sensors, a strong relationship with Zeiss, a strong relationship with mobile through their phones, lots of money for R&D and huge marketing clout. Hipsters don't bother with this stuff anyway, preferring things like Olympus Trip 35s - but the great mass of the public rather like all these new Sony cameras (not just the A7), I suspect. There's no substitute for having your products in the magazines, on TV and above all in the stores.

Last edited by mecrox; 12-22-2013 at 05:23 PM.
12-22-2013, 05:44 PM - 1 Like   #88
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Sometime I would like to focus on the poiit of view by we look at the market situation, as a member of pentaxforums.

Sometimes I feel like it's a kind of Pentax brand fanatic...and thi interview feel like a joke, a marketing trap, and a "YOU ALL ARE MY K-BAJONET SLAVES... YOU ARE NOT BRAVE ENOUGHT TO SWITCH BRADN! BHHUAHUAH!"

...but when I subscribed and registered, obviusly after reeding the rules of this web site, I thougt the target of fhis virtual place is to support each other, in terms of help, share know-how and informations, to make our experience of users and customers, better...

...but sometimes I feel like this is a place made to make easier outing of a fanatic-feticist love for a brand...

I'm a bit confused.

Anyw<y, I hope that we all feels like a community, and Pentax, as a company is not a guru leader of alternative photographers, or a totem to love, defense and honorate, but just a market operator who should o should not satisfy our needs and desires, in the specific in terms of money spent, competition, and tecnical needs solutions.

I don't want to set up a a war, I'm a pentax entuxiast user from 10 yeasr, but I take care most of "customers interests" than "pentax good name" because we put money, insted they (Ricoh first of all) eanr it. More I use and live Pentax experience, more I think that I should share the bad with the good part of this way of ph. living. I don't want to celebrate Pentax Co. or make them a free marketing campaign... I want to make customers and potentials buyer more and more consciuous about the positive and negative aspects of that peculiar brand. Criticis, for ma, is the best way.
As apsc, Pentax is the best, except for AF and assistenc, sistem, for semi-pro users. The offer of lenses and acceosries may not be totally professional, but can satisfy most of amateurs and some apsc-pro users. But still leaks of a really pro assistance. A PRO could easly be not satisfaied, and even damneged, by Pentax actual sitaution of service. I HAVE to say it, after 10 yaers. My will to be usefull for others photographers is stronger than my feticistic and "self-satisfating" complex of self celebrata my alternative choiche of ph. gear.... I'm not a fanaitc, I'm a ph. semi-pro and full amateur.. I well know Pentax strenght as I well kown Pentax fails. And, in the general trand of self-masturbating about "I'm a Pentax-Nikon-Canon user... I rulez" I think that a critical way is better than the common "I want to tell everybody how I spent well my money and how cool is my ph. gear". I may be wrong, but I'll go on this way, because if I had found on my way some more people like me, I probably had spent in a better move my precious money, to get better photos or more price/performance ratio gear. Fanatis is just egosist. Critiscim, if argued, is a kind of mutual support. All that "9" "k-3 af is fantastic" "you are just another anti-pentax user" helps only the ego-feeding of users who write it, to felle better about their insecure choiche.
Even if I'm a 7 post user, I'have been a pentax player for ten years, I have more thano 1000 post in the forum of my country, and I spent too much time and money looking foreward an hoped and waited resolution of pentax's weakness, bui I can't wait no more, I want to speek in the most explicit way, becouse I express that part of users that are a bit disappointed for some issues, and if Pentax want to sell well (it'a a company, not a ONG), they should get the feedback of users, first of all in place like this global forum. I'm not against Pentax, I'm for users, customers, money-spenders... Pentax for me is a comany before than a self-celebrating brand-religion. Tha's me, sorry!

And reading this kind of interview, after years of bla bla bla, Hoya Ricoh &Co. periods, it's strating to be frustating... Money and time are direclty connected factors, and Pentax "bla bla bla" in Ricoh version is just onother way to make me wait...

I can not express the most of pentax users, but I can say I espress just a part, and I have the same right to speak as every one else here, even if I'm critic with only 7 posts. Criticism is an aid to customers, workers, users... and I'm one of them, and allways prefer to be on that side, than on the frustrated side of fanatics.

I love Pentax, but it's making me cry a bit, loosing money and wasting time, so, if I can argue my opionion and the convenience of switch sistem, I don't feel wrong, but just a critical thinker who could make other think deeper about their money and their needs.

Pentax is just a trademark, ph. gear... no t a religion... if I understood this website.

Last edited by pesao; 12-22-2013 at 06:11 PM.
12-22-2013, 05:50 PM - 1 Like   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
In fairness, the "5 Post User" has provided reviews for a number of Pentax products,
and for those items with which I am personally familiar (e.g., K24/2.8, M100/2.8),
I can say that the reviews show a good knowledge of the products and their capabilities.
OK - so a little snarky. My apologies. I've reviewed those lenses as well and own them both.
12-22-2013, 07:30 PM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I've no idea what Ricoh's plans are but I hope they are more than this or it's quite hard to see things working out at all. If a company talks about being bold and different while in practice doing and investing the bare minimum to keep the show on the road, consumers will soon rumble it. Sooner or later, I think Ricoh are going to have to come out fighting and stake some serious claims or they or at least Pentax will simply fade away.
I don't have anything against Sony myself. They've been hyped up recently for sure, but if they play their cards....

There is a significant difference between different sizes and appetites, and what it takes to keep a corporate entity running. Nikon, Canon and Sony all have very big appetites, and they must spend a lot on advertising, raising their voice, making noise, introduce new models month after month, etc. Their schedules are ridiculous and expenses huge.

When we see them advertising, we presume Pentax is losing its ground. But that is not true.

That is not true because we are wrapped in an exaggerated reality advertising creates, and at that moment we are not in touch with reality as it is. On the other hand, Ricoh Imaging can produce and release only as much as necessary to sustain their relatively low profile and still prosper simply by embracing the halo effect of the advertising created by $$ of other brands.

That one is very important and often overlooked fact.

For example, if $10,000 spent on advertising by Canon makes 30 people see their cameras, it is very likely that at least 5 of them will also see a Pentax camera on the shelf, or in Amazon list page, and if prompted by clerk's clever remark, or a good price, Canon's advertising money helped sell a Pentax camera and lens. To Ricoh Imaging that is $10,000 saved, that might work as well in the opposite direction (people buy Canon or Nikon cameras instead).

Thus when Nikon, Sony and Canon are advertising, they all help sell Pentax and Ricoh cameras too to the extent that Ricoh does not need invest as many advertising $$ in direct campaigns — but rather place products in the same shop and make a good deal with the owner.

As I tried to illustrate in an other thread, today all DSLR manufacturers sell in average 3-4x times more cameras than in best film years. Pentax sells quite a few too, and it doesn't mean at all that their goal must be to sell as many as Nikon or Canon or Sony. To achieve such levels, their advertising and production costs will skyrocket, and that would be a suicide.

Passive advertising, active advertising only in case of direct online promotions on their own websites, smart positioning, offering a lot for same $$, loyalty, imaginative development, etc. is the key of a steady progress undisturbed by fluctuations and regurgitations that bother big players. By being relatively small, Pentax can focus on true values that make photographic experience exciting.

Wonder why people love the experience of products made by small players, Leica or Pentax? Because the passion, and loyalty part of the business are undisturbed, and quite sustained by the facility of their smaller size. But Canon, Nikon or Sony cannot live with an idea to shrink their size, that it is all about quality not quantity. Hence they are trapped inside a very exhausting game.

Last edited by Uluru; 12-22-2013 at 07:53 PM.
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