[grispie]

The Pentaxs still have no FULL manual control in video modes

What do you understand under "FULL" manual control?

[txsbluesguy]

What do you understand under "FULL" manual control?

"FULL" manual is where the user sets the camera to movie mode, then selects an ISO, a shutter speed and an aperture and press record AND not have the camera override or change any setting when recording.

the Pentaxes will let you set aperture but unless you do exposure lock it can select different shutter speeds as it see fit.

there are several discussions on this concept. here is one that discusses the work arounds
Trick for 'manual' video mode in K5.. do they work or not??: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

most of the "pro" filmaker type users that I work and interact with, choose the canons to shoot cinema style Hollywood looking footage set their cameras to 1/50, 1/48, or 1/60 of a second to mimic the motion look of a cine camera with a 180degree shutter shooting at 25 or 24 or 30 fps. They select the ISO for the best dynamic range and image quality and then set the aperture for the DOF look they want or the sharpness they want and leave nothing to chance. Full Manual control.

With the way Pentax implements what it calls manual, you cannot truly set the shutter speed in video mode before recording and can not adjust the aperture on full auto lenses once recording has begun. If you try to use manual lenses with manual apertures the camera will shift shutter speed when changing apertures when recording.

Basically unless you really want to jump through hoops and do work arounds when you shoot video you are shooting in quasi program mode even under the M setting. Which is taking chance with the camera shifting a setting during recording.

[vonBaloney]

Yes. Full manual. You want it to act as if it is a dumb mechanical old movie film camera. Shutter speed should be absolutely fixed, ISO fixed, the camera should not react to changes with the lens. (No WB changes either.) Changing the aperture during a shot is a little weird -- that would have been challenging when I was doing cinematography with film. Is that common now w/ video?

[grispie]

"FULL" manual is where the user sets the camera to movie mode, then selects an ISO, a shutter speed and an aperture and press record AND not have the camera override or change any setting when recording.

well, I can do that.

to clarify: both my k01 and my K3 are FULLY manual.
not sure on the K50..

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Last edited by grispie; 01-10-2014 at 02:44 PM. Reason: addition

[grispie]

and prevents sending the image to larger external monitors for focus and composition confirmation

that I can do as well

[monochrome]

Interesting anecdote from a source.

I heard a story that a certain US broadcast network news division tried to drop their traditional vidcams and use 5D's for its remotes - especially for Breaking News - but their young videographers thought the Canons were too hard to focus (and the veterans simply refused to try). The EP's and Talent, though, love the 5D color profile. So the network wrote an emulation for the 5D color profile in post and went back to the traditional (Sony) cameras for all their remotes, as well as their feature shoots.

OT for sure, but my source tried out my K3 - first time using a Pentax since K1000 - and actually thinks the Pentax color profile is intrguing. Maybe there is hope for Pentax yet.

[txsbluesguy]

Yes. Full manual. You want it to act as if it is a dumb mechanical old movie film camera. Shutter speed should be absolutely fixed, ISO fixed, the camera should not react to changes with the lens. (No WB changes either.) Changing the aperture during a shot is a little weird -- that would have been challenging when I was doing cinematography with film. Is that common now w/ video?

I mostly shot news and sports where the camera moved a lot and the lighting conditions changed and tweaking the iris while shooting was standard because unlike a RAW still you really could not "fix it in post". Even now since the DSLRs, other than the cameras from Black magic, shoot in compressed formats teaking exposure in post is a very iffy proposition. The Samyang cine lenses remove the clicks in their aperture rings to allow smooth stepless aperture adjustments to nail the exposure. They also have consistant rotation direction and amount of turn for focusing across the line, I think its a 160 degrees, which allows more fine adjustment than the short throw AF stills lenses, which are optimized for quick AF response by the camera body. They also have a uniform front filter ring size and dampend focus reistance unlike modern AF stills lenses.

You can lock the Pentax cameras but you cannot be sure what shutter your actually set at. To lock it down you basially have to fix a certain lighting condiditon on a gray card lock the exposure and then start recording .......... and do this with each and every time you roll to get consistand shutter speeds.. There are some links on the net where someone has created a chart after testing what the EV is that the Pentaxs run to get a true filmic shutter speed if you want to go through the hoops. The canons have full manual and don't have to do this.

Not every junior Speilberg or Bay who shoots with a canon DSLR actually knows what their doing but the ones who do steer away from pentax for this reason. The effect trickles down and the less sophisticated just hear Pentax is not suitible for pro video work and takes it at gospel with out even knowint the reason why. plus things like lens selection, avaiablity and support. Canon actually opened up a pro support center in LA just to suppor the cinema crowd .... not sure Pentax even has a pro support network for their stills users.

The problem with disabling the HDMI port on the camera during record is a big deal.On most narrative style, commercial, corporate type shoots the video of what is being recorded is fed to extrenal monitos for the director and others in the crew to view as the shot happens. this is refered to as the "video village" With the Pentax this imortant practice on the set is disabled.

Like others have said the images from the pentax are just as colorful and sharp as the others, but the other details that are important to the pro users to ensure they get consistant quality footage are missing in the Pentax cameras for the time being.

[txsbluesguy]

well, I can do that.

to clarify: both my k01 and my K3 are FULLY manual.
not sure on the K50..

if the K3 is finally fully manual in video mode, it may be the reason Samyang finally decided to release their Cine lenses in K mount

[grispie]

f the K3 is finally fully manual in video mode, it may be the reason Samyang finally decided to release their Cine lenses in K mount

it is fully manual, yes.
The K5 is not, which was really a dumb call by pentax. Otherwise a lot of people would have jumped at the K5 for video.
Really unfortunate

[rumplestiltskin]

I've got nothing to contribute to this discussion except to say that it's very interesting! Thank you.

[grispie]

Interesting anecdote from a source.

I heard a story that a certain US broadcast network news division tried to drop their traditional vidcams and use 5D's for its remotes - especially for Breaking News - but their young videographers thought the Canons were too hard to focus (and the veterans simply refused to try). The EP's and Talent, though, love the 5D color profile. So the network wrote an emulation for the 5D color profile in post and went back to the traditional (Sony) cameras for all their remotes, as well as their feature shoots.

OT for sure, but my source tried out my K3 - first time using a Pentax since K1000 - and actually thinks the Pentax color profile is intrguing. Maybe there is hope for Pentax yet.

What I learnt yesterday, is that, in all my videos sofar, whether with the sony or the k3, is that, after shooting with a flat profile, I have to sharpen the footage again in post. I never did... :-) Logical ofcourse, but a pure beginner mistake. It makes quite a difference on the image. There is so much to learn...

I've got nothing to contribute to this discussion except to say that it's very interesting! Thank you.

Feel free to contribute. Just use some difficult words and make it sound scientific :-)

[OldNoob]

Their 85mm is pretty hard to focus for stills because of such a narrow depth of field it has , i can't help but wonder , how hard it would be in video mode where the subject may be moving.

[aurele]

Their 85mm is pretty hard to focus for stills because of such a narrow depth of field it has , i can't help but wonder , how hard it would be in video mode where the subject may be moving.

with video focus ring it's far easier at longer distance, but trickier at closer distance to focus.

The focus mecanisme is made in a way that rotating the focusing ring for moves the focus plane not in a exponential way like with photo lens, but in a proportional. Turning 10 degree moves the focus plane for 1m all the time, instead of moving the focus plane from 1m to 1.2, then 1.2 to 2, then 2 to 10, then 10 to infinity, for example.

[OldNoob]

with video focus ring it's far easier at longer distance, but trickier at closer distance to focus.

The focus mecanisme is made in a way that rotating the focusing ring for moves the focus plane not in a exponential way like with photo lens, but in a proportional. Turning 10 degree moves the focus plane for 1m all the time, instead of moving the focus plane from 1m to 1.2, then 1.2 to 2, then 2 to 10, then 10 to infinity, for example.

Thats interesting and helpful info. Is this info on the Samyang site?

[aurele]

Thats interesting and helpful info. Is this info on the Samyang site?

i honestly don't know.

This kind of thing exist on high end cine lens. The focus throw is usually around 270 degrees. I think the Samyang is only 180 degrees, and as such are probably not real cine lens. My guess is that they just declic the aperture ring, change the focus ring to allow follow focus, and they call it cine lens.

Just remember that Samyang cine lens, are just in a far lower league than any real cine lens. You just pay for what you get