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03-10-2014, 03:59 AM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Because the traditional camera market by the end of 2014 will be at some 40% of the size of the camera market of 2011.
The ILC production figures for January 2014 are at about 95% of the January 2011 ones. I think you're way too pessimistic

03-10-2014, 04:18 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The ILC production figures for January 2014 are at about 95% of the January 2011 ones. I think you're way too pessimistic
Production and actual sales are much different. One month also means nothing, as January production output is very much similar across many industries and is universally running at lower production speeds. January is a slow production month no matter what year and industry, and if someone from the industry is showing the audience January production numbers and compares to January production numbers from the previous years, that signals red alert as too optimistic and skewed litanies will follow.
03-10-2014, 05:05 AM   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Because the traditional camera market by the end of 2014 will be at some 40% of the size of the camera market of 2011.

FF did not make much sense in 2011, and was negligible part of the market. In 2014, when there is even 60% less buying power, it makes even less sense for any manufacturer to come with an FF, apart from those who already have extensive FF lens lineups and don't want to bother investing further into the APS-C.

FF makes sense to Nikon and Canon alone, as they will stop developing APS-C lines further. To them the story goes on like this: (A) they may further split their lines by introducing pro level APS-C cameras and more crop lenses, or, (B) they may use same that money and further invest in FF cameras for which they have 5x more lenses already and need no new ones.

So what would they do? What would any sane business do in their place and in shrinking market? Further split their lineup or keep it more streamlined? To them it makes perfect sense to play the FF game and sell people story that size matters. And you will buy that story. As will Rice High. It is not because the story is true, but because they are forced into it but people fail to see why. Canon and Nikon have no other retreat or else they will succumb. Their power is where their lenses are.

Sony, on the other hand, just plays cluelessly in the sand because they make sensors others buy, but they realise the time for games are over. They need much more to sustain themselves in terms of sales of cameras and lenses than they do now, and will start introducing (they already have) crazier and crazier cameras that utilise different types and sizes of sensors only to keep the supply of sensors at some sustainable levels and others buying from them.

Sony is becoming a new Kodak.
Uluru, I agree with your arguments. I spite of the fact that I don't know the exact figures, I have the same feeling.
There is another good strategy in a crisis - to innovate. To look after new, revolutionary ideas. I am sure the engineers
of Pentax are very aware of it.
The technology of the large sensors surely will bring us bigger, better and cheaper ones. I cannot say the same for the lenses.
So, the problem is obvious.
03-10-2014, 08:02 AM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by HYS Quote
So how shell I understand this: no FF at all?
That was one person's suggestion.

It would require an extensive redesign to limit the 31 to just APS-C only.

It would be difficult to design the 77 to just APS-C only. They could do it, it'd just be hard to do, something they'd want to do specifically. Heck the 70mm DA is FF in everything but name.

I'd say the 43 is in the middle.

The redesign wouldn't provide value to many people except in some very limited circumstances. People are expecting lower costs... and I'm fairly sure that coating/quickshift change only would be 20-30% (As above) more and an APS-C only redesign would be as least as much if not more.

03-10-2014, 09:14 AM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Sony, on the other hand, just plays cluelessly in the sand because they make sensors others buy, but they realise the time for games are over. They need much more to sustain themselves in terms of sales of cameras and lenses than they do now, and will start introducing (they already have) crazier and crazier cameras that utilise different types and sizes of sensors only to keep the supply of sensors at some sustainable levels and others buying from them.
I agreed with your statement up to this point. But this seems inaccurate. I can remember the incredible difference between the K20 and its samsung sensor and the k5 and its Sony exmor sensor. We had this great software available, but one couldn't do much with it until the Sony exmor sensors appeared and suddenly one could process files much more aggressively without a lot of noise popping out, etc.

One could argue the point that there hasn't been much innovation in the photography market without Sony. I always thought the Nex line looked crazy, till i ended up buying 2 of them :-). The rest of the mfr seem like they are just hooked into small step iteration compared to the CRAZY Sony company.

In summary, thank one's God for Sony, the photographic world would be much duller without them. After all, many pundits crowned the A7 series as the camera of the year for 2013.

I do agree that sometimes they don't seem to take advantage of some of their innovation achievements - e.g the idea of putting app capability in camera firmware - major idea to benefit consumers, but i'm not sure where thats going. Yes, hit and miss at times, but always interesting.

Last edited by philbaum; 03-10-2014 at 11:18 AM.
03-10-2014, 09:47 AM   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I agreed with your statement up to this point. But this seems unduly harsh and not very applicable. I can remember the incredible difference between the K20 and its samsung sensor and the k5 and its Sony exmor sensor. We had this great software available, but one couldn't do much with it until the Sony exmor sensors appeared and suddenly one could process files much more aggressively without a lot of noise poppping out, etc.

One could argue the point that there hasn't been much innovation in the photography market without Sony. I always thought the Nex line looked crazy, till i ended up buying 2 of them :-). The rest of the mfr seem like they are just hooked into small step iteration compared to the CRAZY Sony company.

In summary, thank one's God for Sony, the photographic world would be much duller without them. After all, many pundits crowned the A7 series as the camera of 2013.

I do agree that sometimes they don't seem to take advantage of some of their innovation achievements - t the idea of putting app capability in camera firmware - major idea to benefit consumers, but i'm not sure where thats going. Yes, hit and miss at times, but always interesting.
It is typical of Sony, they always do wacky stuff to shoehorn as much Sony stuff as possible into the slickest shiniest package possible. Often times they will overlook usefulness and ergonomics in that quest and the outcome has some very unfortunate idiosyncrasies, but they make great components.
03-10-2014, 01:04 PM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by HYS Quote
the new 20-40 red labeled zoom is noting so great and don't mark serious way for the future.
Expensive ant not so brilliant as I have expected from Pentax-Ricoh in this modern times.
How well do you know Pentax, and how well do you know the DA 20-40 lens?

Based on my experience, I would say that the lens is very much in the Pentax tradition,
a fine compromise of optics and ergonomics,
capable of producing excellent photographs in everyday use.

So what are your expectations of Pentax?
03-10-2014, 03:38 PM   #308
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
FA Limiteds are out of production for 2 years.
Indees, gone are the three FA Limited lenses.



(note that FA 50mm f/1,4 is still there)

03-10-2014, 03:58 PM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Indees, gone are the three FA Limited lenses.



(note that FA 50mm f/1,4 is still there)
it is the DFA 50/2.8 Macro not the FA 50/1.4! SMC Pentax-D FA 50mm F2.8 Macro Reviews - D FA Prime Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database
03-10-2014, 04:31 PM - 1 Like   #310
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But,the FA 1,4 / 50 is still to order.
03-10-2014, 04:37 PM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by asahi man Quote
But,the FA 1,4 / 50 is still to order.
That's odd.

Are the FA limiteds coming back or not?
03-10-2014, 04:37 PM   #312
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Let us not try to find any sense in all this.
03-10-2014, 04:46 PM - 1 Like   #313
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I think the FA lims and the 1,4 / 50 were produced till the same end.
I saw the list for new stuff,NO FA lims with HD in sight.
03-10-2014, 04:50 PM   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Let us not try to find any sense in all this.
03-10-2014, 04:56 PM   #315
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I think DA20-40 zoom is missing from the group photo montage. And the TC as well.
But as I said, let us not try to make any sense out of this.
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