CES 2014 and CP+ 2014

Daikokuya · 01-12-2014, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by mikemike

The 80% market is dominated because Canon and Nikon flood the big box channels with entry level models. The FF market is fought for online and at specialty stores with people who are much more engaged in photography. They might not have considered pentax before b/c they were shopping for a FF camera but they have certainly heard of them.

The reason why Pentax hasn't flooded the market with entry models is, I think, because Ricoh hasn't fully committed to Pentax. I have had a serious doubt of Ricoh's support for Pentax. Of course, it's far better than Hoya, but it looks like to me that Ricoh's support would keep tenuous unless Pentax improves its performance with existing models.

thibs · 01-12-2014, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

The reason why Pentax hasn't flooded the market with entry models is, I think, because Ricoh hasn't fully committed to Pentax. I have had a serious doubt of Ricoh's support for Pentax. Of course, it's far better than Hoya, but it looks like to me that Ricoh's support would keep tenuous unless Pentax improves its performance with existing models.

Nope, Sony did that (fllod the market) and certainly bought marketshare but financially in deep hole.
Ricoh wants to play it safe, who can disagree with that?

**RobA_Oz** · 01-12-2014, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

The reason why Pentax hasn't flooded the market with entry models is, I think, because Ricoh hasn't fully committed to Pentax. I have had a serious doubt of Ricoh's support for Pentax. Of course, it's far better than Hoya, but it looks like to me that Ricoh's support would keep tenuous unless Pentax improves its performance with existing models.

Well, that's hardly in accordance with their stated aim of becoming a significant manufacturer of DSLRs.

thibs · 01-12-2014, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by Uluru

By their remark we shall never get it, because the situation will never get really so much better. The remark is crazy. On the other hand, I just got the specs of the new FF lens just made. Cannot tell details but I can tell a fortune cookie wisdom, "Never trust a salesman who puts up an act during the exhibition".

Mmmm like the 17-85/2.8 which went to 17-85/2.8-4 which still unreleased (if even exists) ?
* nothing personal btw *

Uluru · 01-13-2014, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Mmmm like the 17-85/2.8 which went to 17-85/2.8-4 which still unreleased (if even exists) ?
* nothing personal btw *

18-70.

But no, it's a new one, that starts above 70. But don't blame me for their slow pace. My only explanation is that they are making more, to present during and after the CP+. If nothing else, than damned TC was promised in times when Moses walked the Earth.

Thus despite all these all new lenses, I'm quite sincerely much more interested in the fate of the existing DA* line. To me, that is the issue that should have been addressed before the Limiteds. Even if they issue all new lenses we have never seen before, but do not address the DA* line, I shall think their move is a failure.

Daikokuya · 01-13-2014, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Ricoh wants to play it safe, who can disagree with that?

Nobody disagrees with that, except for those who say "that's hardly in accordance with their stated aim of becoming a significant manufacturer of DSLRs." I haven't seen Ricoh set a numerical target like market share or so in the camera market. For them, the meaning of "siginigicant" varies a lot.

**RobA_Oz** · 01-13-2014, 12:33 AM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

Nobody disagrees with that, except for those who say "that's hardly in accordance with their stated aim of becoming a significant manufacturer of DSLRs." I haven't seen Ricoh set a numerical target like market share or so in the camera market. For them, the meaning of "siginigicant" varies a lot.

Well, you'd hardly expect them to make a numerical target like that public, would you?

thibs · 01-13-2014, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

18-70.

Indeed.

Originally posted by Uluru

But no, it's a new one, that starts above 70. But don't blame me for their slow pace. My only explanation is that they are making more, to present during and after the CP+. If nothing else, than damned TC was promised in times when Moses walked the Earth.

I don't

and LOL for Moses

Originally posted by Uluru

Thus despite all these all new lenses, I'm quite sincerely much more interested in the fate of the existing DA* line. To me, that is the issue that should have been addressed before the Limiteds. Even if they issue all new lenses we have never seen before, but do not address the DA* line, I shall think their move is a failure.

I somehow agree. They need to sort this out properly.
But how the heck do you get those lens specs from ?

Daikokuya · 01-13-2014, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by RobA_Oz

Well, you'd hardly expect them to make a numerical target like that public, would you?

I wouldn't expect them to do that. Why would I? That's the way business works. Once the target is made public, it bears responsibility which they want to avoid.

thibs · 01-13-2014, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

I wouldn't expect them to do that. Why would I? That's the way business works. Once the target is made public, it bears responsibility which they want to avoid.

What target ?

**RobA_Oz** · 01-13-2014, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by thibs

What target ?

The one they don't talk about, of course.

**monochrome** · 01-13-2014, 05:29 AM - **2 Likes**

It might help if one reads financial analysis reports on Ricoh and the ILC market globally and consumer electronics sector globally before one makes sweeping generalizations about the global markets and Ricoh's commitment to the Business to Consumer digital imaging sector.

Ricoh believes there is room in the market for a third dSLR maker; Ricoh believes it will be Pentax; Ricoh is committed to becoming THE alternbative to Canon and Nikon over the intermediate term, but will NOT be another CaNikon. Ricoh is conservative, believes in long-term incremental, constant growth over time and is an absolutely relentless competitor.

To invest enough money to compete head-to-head TODAY with CaNikonY would actually decrease the earnings of the parent company, which Ricoh will not do. Ricoh will invest capital in manufacturing processes and facilities that will either lower costs through efficiency or offer licensing revenue. Pentax will then grow by reinvesting its own internally-generated cash flow.

Markets and products are not fixed in time. An action (or lack thereof) today, viewed from the outside, means nothing unless one knows everything about Ricoh's business strategy, tactics, plans and position, which we don't.

Pentax is not Doomed.

Uluru · 01-13-2014, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

..

Ricoh believes there is room in the market for a third dSLR maker; Ricoh believes it will be Pentax; Ricoh is committed to becoming THE alternative...

When it comes to Pentax, even that DSLR acronym one should not take literally, or use Nikon's or Canon's definition ... as things are going, and from what I hear.

Clavius · 01-13-2014, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by Uluru

When it comes to Pentax, even that DSLR acronym one should not take literally, or use Nikon's or Canon's definition ... as things are going, and from what I hear.

Maybe I am not understanding you correctly here... But in what way are Ricoh's DSLR's, not DSLR's?

ElJamoquio · 01-13-2014, 06:16 AM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

The problem is that nobody knows for sure whether Pentax can beat Canon, Nikon or even Sony in the US markets. It looks like to me that Pentax has decided to keep in the APS-C market as good as possible without venturing into a field where they don't know. Of course, that's my opinion.

Pentax has given us everything but an introduction date for FF. I expect it in October, but I think the 'optimists' might be thinking a spring release and the 'pessimists' are thinking a spring 2015 release.

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01-12-2014, 10:48 PM	#76
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210	Originally posted by mikemike The 80% market is dominated because Canon and Nikon flood the big box channels with entry level models. The FF market is fought for online and at specialty stores with people who are much more engaged in photography. They might not have considered pentax before b/c they were shopping for a FF camera but they have certainly heard of them. The reason why Pentax hasn't flooded the market with entry models is, I think, because Ricoh hasn't fully committed to Pentax. I have had a serious doubt of Ricoh's support for Pentax. Of course, it's far better than Hoya, but it looks like to me that Ricoh's support would keep tenuous unless Pentax improves its performance with existing models.

01-12-2014, 11:25 PM	#77
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 6,287	Originally posted by Daikokuya The reason why Pentax hasn't flooded the market with entry models is, I think, because Ricoh hasn't fully committed to Pentax. I have had a serious doubt of Ricoh's support for Pentax. Of course, it's far better than Hoya, but it looks like to me that Ricoh's support would keep tenuous unless Pentax improves its performance with existing models. Nope, Sony did that (fllod the market) and certainly bought marketshare but financially in deep hole. Ricoh wants to play it safe, who can disagree with that?

01-12-2014, 11:25 PM	#78
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,514	Originally posted by Daikokuya The reason why Pentax hasn't flooded the market with entry models is, I think, because Ricoh hasn't fully committed to Pentax. I have had a serious doubt of Ricoh's support for Pentax. Of course, it's far better than Hoya, but it looks like to me that Ricoh's support would keep tenuous unless Pentax improves its performance with existing models. Well, that's hardly in accordance with their stated aim of becoming a significant manufacturer of DSLRs.

01-12-2014, 11:27 PM	#79
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 6,287	Originally posted by Uluru By their remark we shall never get it, because the situation will never get really so much better. The remark is crazy. On the other hand, I just got the specs of the new FF lens just made. Cannot tell details but I can tell a fortune cookie wisdom, "Never trust a salesman who puts up an act during the exhibition". Mmmm like the 17-85/2.8 which went to 17-85/2.8-4 which still unreleased (if even exists) ? * nothing personal btw *

01-13-2014, 12:04 AM	#80
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by thibs Mmmm like the 17-85/2.8 which went to 17-85/2.8-4 which still unreleased (if even exists) ? * nothing personal btw * 18-70. But no, it's a new one, that starts above 70. But don't blame me for their slow pace. My only explanation is that they are making more, to present during and after the CP+. If nothing else, than damned TC was promised in times when Moses walked the Earth. Thus despite all these all new lenses, I'm quite sincerely much more interested in the fate of the existing DA* line. To me, that is the issue that should have been addressed before the Limiteds. Even if they issue all new lenses we have never seen before, but do not address the DA* line, I shall think their move is a failure.

01-13-2014, 12:27 AM	#81
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210	Originally posted by thibs Ricoh wants to play it safe, who can disagree with that? Nobody disagrees with that, except for those who say "that's hardly in accordance with their stated aim of becoming a significant manufacturer of DSLRs." I haven't seen Ricoh set a numerical target like market share or so in the camera market. For them, the meaning of "siginigicant" varies a lot.

01-13-2014, 12:33 AM	#82
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,514	Originally posted by Daikokuya Nobody disagrees with that, except for those who say "that's hardly in accordance with their stated aim of becoming a significant manufacturer of DSLRs." I haven't seen Ricoh set a numerical target like market share or so in the camera market. For them, the meaning of "siginigicant" varies a lot. Well, you'd hardly expect them to make a numerical target like that public, would you?

01-13-2014, 12:39 AM	#83
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 6,287	Originally posted by Uluru 18-70. Indeed. Originally posted by Uluru But no, it's a new one, that starts above 70. But don't blame me for their slow pace. My only explanation is that they are making more, to present during and after the CP+. If nothing else, than damned TC was promised in times when Moses walked the Earth. I don't and LOL for Moses Originally posted by Uluru Thus despite all these all new lenses, I'm quite sincerely much more interested in the fate of the existing DA* line. To me, that is the issue that should have been addressed before the Limiteds. Even if they issue all new lenses we have never seen before, but do not address the DA* line, I shall think their move is a failure. I somehow agree. They need to sort this out properly. But how the heck do you get those lens specs from ?

01-13-2014, 02:05 AM	#84
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210	Originally posted by RobA_Oz Well, you'd hardly expect them to make a numerical target like that public, would you? I wouldn't expect them to do that. Why would I? That's the way business works. Once the target is made public, it bears responsibility which they want to avoid.

01-13-2014, 04:37 AM	#85
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 6,287	Originally posted by Daikokuya I wouldn't expect them to do that. Why would I? That's the way business works. Once the target is made public, it bears responsibility which they want to avoid. What target ?

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01-13-2014, 04:57 AM	#86
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,514	Originally posted by thibs What target ? The one they don't talk about, of course.

01-13-2014, 05:29 AM - 2 Likes	#87
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,263	It might help if one reads financial analysis reports on Ricoh and the ILC market globally and consumer electronics sector globally before one makes sweeping generalizations about the global markets and Ricoh's commitment to the Business to Consumer digital imaging sector. Ricoh believes there is room in the market for a third dSLR maker; Ricoh believes it will be Pentax; Ricoh is committed to becoming THE alternbative to Canon and Nikon over the intermediate term, but will NOT be another CaNikon. Ricoh is conservative, believes in long-term incremental, constant growth over time and is an absolutely relentless competitor. To invest enough money to compete head-to-head TODAY with CaNikonY would actually decrease the earnings of the parent company, which Ricoh will not do. Ricoh will invest capital in manufacturing processes and facilities that will either lower costs through efficiency or offer licensing revenue. Pentax will then grow by reinvesting its own internally-generated cash flow. Markets and products are not fixed in time. An action (or lack thereof) today, viewed from the outside, means nothing unless one knows everything about Ricoh's business strategy, tactics, plans and position, which we don't. Pentax is not Doomed.

01-13-2014, 05:48 AM	#88
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by monochrome .. Ricoh believes there is room in the market for a third dSLR maker; Ricoh believes it will be Pentax; Ricoh is committed to becoming THE alternative... When it comes to Pentax, even that DSLR acronym one should not take literally, or use Nikon's or Canon's definition ... as things are going, and from what I hear.

01-13-2014, 05:56 AM	#89
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,105	Originally posted by Uluru When it comes to Pentax, even that DSLR acronym one should not take literally, or use Nikon's or Canon's definition ... as things are going, and from what I hear. Maybe I am not understanding you correctly here... But in what way are Ricoh's DSLR's, not DSLR's?

01-13-2014, 06:16 AM	#90
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Daikokuya The problem is that nobody knows for sure whether Pentax can beat Canon, Nikon or even Sony in the US markets. It looks like to me that Pentax has decided to keep in the APS-C market as good as possible without venturing into a field where they don't know. Of course, that's my opinion. Pentax has given us everything but an introduction date for FF. I expect it in October, but I think the 'optimists' might be thinking a spring release and the 'pessimists' are thinking a spring 2015 release.