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01-13-2014, 07:23 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
When it comes to Pentax, even that DSLR acronym one should not take literally, or use Nikon's or Canon's definition ... as things are going, and from what I hear.
I think the reference means Ricoh intends to support K-mount with a mirrorbox and multiple price-point bodies for the foreseeable future, whatever they also release in mirrorless or FF (even if those are the same thing). That apparently separates Ricoh from Sony.

01-13-2014, 08:40 AM   #92
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What if Pentax puts out an APS-H sized sensor? Yes, it would be only incrementally bigger but maybe all the DA lens would still work with it?
01-13-2014, 08:54 AM   #93
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UH-OH! Quick duck!!!
01-13-2014, 08:57 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
What if Pentax puts out an APS-H sized sensor? Yes, it would be only incrementally bigger but maybe all the DA lens would still work with it?
Unlikely. Having your own custom sensor manufactured is very expensive. They will get much better and cheaper results from going with off-the-shelf parts at APS-C or FF.

The expense of custom development is why I am surprised that Fuji is making a run with their X-Trans sensor, why sigma endures extremely long cycles between models, and why I think that MFT will fail if panasonic backs down.

01-13-2014, 09:45 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
What if Pentax puts out an APS-H sized sensor? Yes, it would be only incrementally bigger but maybe all the DA lens would still work with it?
Maybe it will if they don't include SR.
01-13-2014, 12:11 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by starbase218 Quote
Maybe it will if they don't include SR.
Some DA lenses have FF35 sized image circles, so an APS-H sensor would allow SR on those, but not the rest.
01-13-2014, 01:28 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Some DA lenses have FF35 sized image circles, so an APS-H sensor would allow SR on those, but not the rest.
I know, but I really can't believe Ricoh would come out with an APS-H camera and say "some DA lenses work on this, but others won't, and there's no way to tell them apart".
01-13-2014, 01:49 PM   #98
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If anything, I think it would be that they come out with a FF mirrorless camera that automatically knows which lenses work with FF and which ones need to be used in crop mode or maybe even give you an option to use the FF FoV but with a different max aperture instead of crop mode.

01-13-2014, 02:11 PM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by 6BQ5 Quote
What if Pentax puts out an APS-H sized sensor? Yes, it would be only incrementally bigger but maybe all the DA lens would still work with it?
I see the APS-H


01-13-2014, 02:12 PM   #100
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APS-H Nope...
Not produced any more...
01-13-2014, 02:24 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
The reason why Pentax hasn't flooded the market with entry models is, I think, because Ricoh hasn't fully committed to Pentax. I have had a serious doubt of Ricoh's support for Pentax. Of course, it's far better than Hoya, but it looks like to me that Ricoh's support would keep tenuous unless Pentax improves its performance with existing models.
Perhaps a better reason for not flooding the market with entry level models is they don't have the retail market presence to sell them.
01-13-2014, 02:37 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Perhaps a better reason for not flooding the market with entry level models is they don't have the retail market presence to sell them.
Nor the manufacturing capacity to produce them.
01-13-2014, 03:07 PM - 3 Likes   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Perhaps a better reason for not flooding the market with entry level models is they don't have the retail market presence to sell them.
One of the reasons Nikon and Canon are flooding the market is to create such a huge pile of stock in b&m stores which will must get rid of through insane price reductions and constant incentives. With that they make the claim they are the only circus in town.

Both Nikon and Canon have truckloads and shiploads of old cameras. They were manufacturing them far beyond demand, and now both are facing the so called 'involuntary inventory build up'. Involuntary my bottom — they were using overproduction to:
(1) oversaturate supply,
(2) write off lots of expenses in the future terms,
(3) significantly lower the prices,
(4) to show better future financial results,
(5) marginalise competition.

Which is a bad thing for the long term future of the camera industry in general, and one of reasons camera industry is suffering at the moment: the innovation pops out, but is immediately squashed. Look at the picture below — where two 800lb gorillas fight, flowers won't grow.

Instead of buying current, many people buy old Canon and Nikon cameras because they seem to be cheap and available everywhere. But both Canon and Nikon did this on purpose — there is no other explanation — and to saturate the market with their own junk, helped create a crisis in which other players must lower the prices and raise marketing expenses if they want to enter or stay in the the game. Unlike Canon and Nikon, other players must fight with losses far greater in relative terms as they cannot have the economy of scale of Nikon and Canon nor such omnipresence. They can try to restructure their production completely, as Ricoh Imaging with Pentax just did.

In this act Nikon and Canon will appear to suffer, as the crisis affects all players. However, the general oversupply helps the crisis arrive sooner, and Nikon and Canon suffer only superficially. They loose short term profits but gain long term market share. The long-term goal is to eradicate competition and totally marginalise it.

In other words, if the traditional photography equipment market is shrinking in size thanks to smartphones, Canon and Nikon are unwilling to share that progressively smaller market with others — they want as much as they can get from it. If they can get it all, the better. Thus the crisis is a natural side-effect of an attempt to stop the new breed of cameras invade onto their turf as much as they can.

It is a very nasty business, that stops the real innovation. Not a single conscious and forward looking person, who can add two and two together, would buy anything from either Canon or Nikon.

In old times we had cruder economy, with monopolies being the desired objectives of many. Monopolies people started to hate and became targets of legislation. But today it has all evolved, and we have a trend of the new cunning — the artificially created agreed duopolies, in which parties appear to be in 'fierce competitive spirit', but in fact are just acting, agreeing to split the market by making their mutual fight so loud and omnipresent in newspapers headlines and store shelves that all other players appear small and irrelevant onlookers. What is worst of all, people buy that nonsense and are entertained by it.

Apple and Google in mobile operating systems, Canon and Nikon in cameras, Coca-Cola and Pepsi in beverages, and so on. You can extend this in politics too, and with the same conclusion: whatever you choose between the big two parties, looks like a choice, but in fact is very much the same.

People need to be smarter and recognise these frauds, see how we are manipulated, and support smaller players whose only way is to play by true innovation and more sincerity. I personally would rather have my left nut served in a cannibal wedding dinner than purchase anything from Nikon or Canon.


Last edited by Uluru; 01-13-2014 at 09:37 PM.
01-13-2014, 03:24 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
One of the reasons Nikon and Canon are flooding the market is to create such a huge pile of stock in b&m stores which will must get rid of through insane price reductions and constant incentives. With that they make the claim they are the only circus in town.
Are you saying that the Nikon D90 is not their latest model?

Nikon D90 DSLR Body

01-13-2014, 09:13 PM   #105
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So you do what Pentax is doing under Ricoh. Make very good products, take existing models and rework them for manufacturing efficiency, match the prices of the big guys and not lose money. And find niches where there is a market and service them well.

I like what Ricoh is doing. I couldn't afford to buy all the neat stuff they released last year, and I doubt if I could this coming year. But they did make something specifically for me, and I bought it. They will do the same this year I'm sure.
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