CES 2014 and CP+ 2014

**jatrax** · 01-13-2014, 10:17 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Uluru

One of the reasons Nikon and Canon are flooding the market is to create such a huge pile of stock in b&m stores which will must get rid of through insane price reductions and constant incentives. With that they make the claim they are the only circus in town.

It also keeps the dealers committed. An old saying in retail: an overstocked dealer is a loyal dealer. Some manufacturers have always been noted for offering 'deals' to retailers just to get them all stocked up and their inventory dollars committed. This usually happens before trade shows where a potential competitor might get an order. If you have no open inventory dollars you cannot bring in another line. Defensive overstocking is a good maneuver when a smaller competitor has an interesting product that you have no answer for.

thibs · 01-14-2014, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by jatrax

It also keeps the dealers committed. An old saying in retail: an overstocked dealer is a loyal dealer. Some manufacturers have always been noted for offering 'deals' to retailers just to get them all stocked up and their inventory dollars committed. This usually happens before trade shows where a potential competitor might get an order. If you have no open inventory dollars you cannot bring in another line. Defensive overstocking is a good maneuver when a smaller competitor has an interesting product that you have no answer for.

And that's no anti-competitive recognized practice ?
LOL

Mistral75 · 01-21-2014, 11:00 AM

Pentax 645D II with a 50 Mpix CMOS sensor from Sony announced at CP+ or later?

Indeed, Hasselblad just announced their H5D-50c which will be the first medium format camera to include a CMOS sensor instead of a CCD sensor:

Hasselblad to launch CMOS sensor-based medium format camera

Could it be that Ricoh will use the same sensor for the successor to Pentax 645D?

Hasselblad reveals first medium format CMOS sensor, opening the door for other photography brands? - Pocket-lint

RonHendriks1966 · 01-21-2014, 11:55 AM

That would be great news, a cmos sensor in the 645Dii.

ElJamoquio · 01-21-2014, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

Pentax 645D II with a 50 Mpix CMOS sensor from Sony announced at CP+ or later?

Indeed, Hasselblad just announced their H5D-50c which will be the first medium format camera to include a CMOS sensor instead of a CCD sensor:

Hasselblad to launch CMOS sensor-based medium format camera

Could it be that Ricoh will use the same sensor for the successor to Pentax 645D?

Hasselblad reveals first medium format CMOS sensor, opening the door for other photography brands? - Pocket-lint

Awesome. Haven't been able to find the dimensions of the sensor though?

wlq · 01-21-2014, 12:36 PM

The main reason for making APS-C before is stepper needs exposure twice to cover the size of full frame. It is not the case anymore. The FF sensor can be made with single exposure of stepper now. Pentax puts too much efforts to the APS-C DA lenses line-up.

**monochrome** · 01-21-2014, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by derekkite

So you do what Pentax is doing under Ricoh. Make very good products, take existing models and rework them for manufacturing efficiency, match the prices of the big guys and not lose money. And find niches where there is a market and service them well.

I like what Ricoh is doing. I couldn't afford to buy all the neat stuff they released last year, and I doubt if I could this coming year. But they did make something specifically for me, and I bought it. They will do the same this year I'm sure.

You understand what is going on. It takes some time to change perception - but eventually it does change.

Personnel, Philiosophy, Process and Products must be in alignment, and stay in alignment over a full market cycle, before they begin to have an effect on Performance and Perception.

Mistral75 · 01-21-2014, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Awesome. Haven't been able to find the dimensions of the sensor though?

This is the press release:

Hasselblad Press Lounge

"Further information (...) will be announced in March."

ElJamoquio · 01-21-2014, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

This is the press release:

Hasselblad Press Lounge

"Further information (...) will be announced in March."

Hopefully it's gotten bigger!

Mistral75 · 01-21-2014, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Hopefully it's gotten bigger!

The current H5D-50 has a 36.7x49.1mm sensor. I take it that the sensor of H5D-50c won't be smaller.

(Pentax 645D's sensor: 32.9x43.8mm)

Uluru · 01-21-2014, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by wlq

The main reason for making APS-C before is stepper needs exposure twice to cover the size of full frame. It is not the case anymore. The FF sensor can be made with single exposure of stepper now. Pentax puts too much efforts to the APS-C DA lenses line-up.

Also, the FF lens can be made with a same size piece of glass now, and have same optical performance and characteristics as the APS-C lens. Same overall size and same cost of production too.

**monochrome** · 01-21-2014, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by wlq

The main reason for making APS-C before is stepper needs exposure twice to cover the size of full frame. It is not the case anymore. The FF sensor can be made with single exposure of stepper now. Pentax puts too much efforts to the APS-C DA lenses line-up.

That's all well and good. But what of the remaining capital utility of the steppers and tables still optimized for APSc? Are sensor manufacturers supposed to just throw them away? How do they recover the remaining capital investment in them? Over how many units was it originally to be amortized? What would be the charge to current earnings if they were early-retired?

(The earthquake played a part in the economic utility of converting to FF).

Fl_Gulfer · 01-21-2014, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

This is the press release:

Hasselblad Press Lounge

"Further information (...) will be announced in March."

For Millionaires Only....

Kunzite · 01-21-2014, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by wlq

The main reason for making APS-C before is stepper needs exposure twice to cover the size of full frame. It is not the case anymore. The FF sensor can be made with single exposure of stepper now. Pentax puts too much efforts to the APS-C DA lenses line-up.

That would cut a part of the cost difference; but APS-C will remain significantly cheaper. And the so-called "full frame" is still single digits (8.7% of the DSLR market in Japan according to bcnranking); I doubt Pentax is worried about not giving up on the mainstream to go niche.

It will be thanks to APS-C that (if?) Pentax will be able to launch a "full frame" line.

JPT · 01-24-2014, 06:14 AM

I just received an email from Ricoh Japan pointing me to this web page, which shows a mock-up of the stand at CP+. Looks like it is going to be more of an open space than last. Unfortunately, I won't be able to go this year.

Google Translate

01-21-2014, 03:29 PM	#119
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 12,362	Originally posted by wlq The main reason for making APS-C before is stepper needs exposure twice to cover the size of full frame. It is not the case anymore. The FF sensor can be made with single exposure of stepper now. Pentax puts too much efforts to the APS-C DA lenses line-up. That would cut a part of the cost difference; but APS-C will remain significantly cheaper. And the so-called "full frame" is still single digits (8.7% of the DSLR market in Japan according to bcnranking); I doubt Pentax is worried about not giving up on the mainstream to go niche. It will be thanks to APS-C that (if?) Pentax will be able to launch a "full frame" line. Last edited by Kunzite; 01-21-2014 at 03:35 PM.

01-24-2014, 06:14 AM	#120
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,661	Preview of Ricoh CP+ Stand I just received an email from Ricoh Japan pointing me to this web page, which shows a mock-up of the stand at CP+. Looks like it is going to be more of an open space than last. Unfortunately, I won't be able to go this year. Google Translate

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01-13-2014, 10:17 PM - 1 Like	#106
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,933	Originally posted by Uluru One of the reasons Nikon and Canon are flooding the market is to create such a huge pile of stock in b&m stores which will must get rid of through insane price reductions and constant incentives. With that they make the claim they are the only circus in town. It also keeps the dealers committed. An old saying in retail: an overstocked dealer is a loyal dealer. Some manufacturers have always been noted for offering 'deals' to retailers just to get them all stocked up and their inventory dollars committed. This usually happens before trade shows where a potential competitor might get an order. If you have no open inventory dollars you cannot bring in another line. Defensive overstocking is a good maneuver when a smaller competitor has an interesting product that you have no answer for.

01-14-2014, 01:26 AM	#107
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 5,815	Originally posted by jatrax It also keeps the dealers committed. An old saying in retail: an overstocked dealer is a loyal dealer. Some manufacturers have always been noted for offering 'deals' to retailers just to get them all stocked up and their inventory dollars committed. This usually happens before trade shows where a potential competitor might get an order. If you have no open inventory dollars you cannot bring in another line. Defensive overstocking is a good maneuver when a smaller competitor has an interesting product that you have no answer for. And that's no anti-competitive recognized practice ? LOL

01-21-2014, 11:00 AM	#108
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 5,459	Pentax 645D II with a 50 Mpix CMOS sensor from Sony announced at CP+ or later? Indeed, Hasselblad just announced their H5D-50c which will be the first medium format camera to include a CMOS sensor instead of a CCD sensor: Hasselblad to launch CMOS sensor-based medium format camera Could it be that Ricoh will use the same sensor for the successor to Pentax 645D? Hasselblad reveals first medium format CMOS sensor, opening the door for other photography brands? - Pocket-lint

01-21-2014, 11:55 AM	#109
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,674	That would be great news, a cmos sensor in the 645Dii.

01-21-2014, 12:32 PM	#110
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Mistral75 Pentax 645D II with a 50 Mpix CMOS sensor from Sony announced at CP+ or later? Indeed, Hasselblad just announced their H5D-50c which will be the first medium format camera to include a CMOS sensor instead of a CCD sensor: Hasselblad to launch CMOS sensor-based medium format camera Could it be that Ricoh will use the same sensor for the successor to Pentax 645D? Hasselblad reveals first medium format CMOS sensor, opening the door for other photography brands? - Pocket-lint Awesome. Haven't been able to find the dimensions of the sensor though?

01-21-2014, 12:36 PM	#111
wlq New Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 2	The main reason for making APS-C before is stepper needs exposure twice to cover the size of full frame. It is not the case anymore. The FF sensor can be made with single exposure of stepper now. Pentax puts too much efforts to the APS-C DA lenses line-up.

01-21-2014, 12:39 PM	#112
monochrome Lens Hoarder Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,375	Originally posted by derekkite So you do what Pentax is doing under Ricoh. Make very good products, take existing models and rework them for manufacturing efficiency, match the prices of the big guys and not lose money. And find niches where there is a market and service them well. I like what Ricoh is doing. I couldn't afford to buy all the neat stuff they released last year, and I doubt if I could this coming year. But they did make something specifically for me, and I bought it. They will do the same this year I'm sure. You understand what is going on. It takes some time to change perception - but eventually it does change. Personnel, Philiosophy, Process and Products must be in alignment, and stay in alignment over a full market cycle, before they begin to have an effect on Performance and Perception.

01-21-2014, 12:58 PM	#113
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 5,459	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Awesome. Haven't been able to find the dimensions of the sensor though? This is the press release: Hasselblad Press Lounge "Further information (...) will be announced in March."

01-21-2014, 01:05 PM	#114
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Mistral75 This is the press release: Hasselblad Press Lounge "Further information (...) will be announced in March." Hopefully it's gotten bigger!

01-21-2014, 01:18 PM	#115
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 5,459	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Hopefully it's gotten bigger! The current H5D-50 has a 36.7x49.1mm sensor. I take it that the sensor of H5D-50c won't be smaller. (Pentax 645D's sensor: 32.9x43.8mm)

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01-21-2014, 02:43 PM	#116
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535 Original Poster	Originally posted by wlq The main reason for making APS-C before is stepper needs exposure twice to cover the size of full frame. It is not the case anymore. The FF sensor can be made with single exposure of stepper now. Pentax puts too much efforts to the APS-C DA lenses line-up. Also, the FF lens can be made with a same size piece of glass now, and have same optical performance and characteristics as the APS-C lens. Same overall size and same cost of production too.

01-21-2014, 02:59 PM	#117
monochrome Lens Hoarder Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: St. Louis, MO Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,375	Originally posted by wlq The main reason for making APS-C before is stepper needs exposure twice to cover the size of full frame. It is not the case anymore. The FF sensor can be made with single exposure of stepper now. Pentax puts too much efforts to the APS-C DA lenses line-up. That's all well and good. But what of the remaining capital utility of the steppers and tables still optimized for APSc? Are sensor manufacturers supposed to just throw them away? How do they recover the remaining capital investment in them? Over how many units was it originally to be amortized? What would be the charge to current earnings if they were early-retired? (The earthquake played a part in the economic utility of converting to FF).

01-21-2014, 03:09 PM	#118
Fl_Gulfer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Gulfer Photos: Albums Posts: 3,057	Originally posted by Mistral75 This is the press release: Hasselblad Press Lounge "Further information (...) will be announced in March." For Millionaires Only....