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03-20-2014, 08:23 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
What's slow for some, is compact for others. If Pentax doesn't give you what you want, why not just change systems? If I wanted fast yet huge and heavy (and expensive), I'd go Canon for sure.

If you ever went Canon, I doubt you'd still think Pentax is overpriced...
In september 2011 I went FF Canon and yes I still think that Pentax lenses in EU are way overpriced. They are small, but they are small because they are slow. If I want small system I will buy micro 3/4 and I will have small system and still fast lenses.

03-20-2014, 09:45 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
What's slow for some, is compact for others. If Pentax doesn't give you what you want, why not just change systems? If I wanted fast yet huge and heavy (and expensive), I'd go Canon for sure.
I wouldn't! Nikon is waaay closer to Pentax IMO.

QuoteQuote:
If you ever went Canon, I doubt you'd still think Pentax is overpriced...
In the normal-ish range Canon seems to be cheaper than Pentax in my view. Nikon seems to be expensive on some things and cheaper on others.
03-20-2014, 12:02 PM   #138
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ElJamoquio, I've seen you doing the comparison before, and it's a bit of apples vs. oranges. You say that because one Nikon full frame zoom gives you the quality of several Pentax primes in one lens, therefore Nikon is cheaper. Sorry but I just can't accept that kind of reasoning.

dfujevec - Regarding prices in the EU - I could and probably am wrong about that. I was thinking about the US. Well, if Pentax priced itself out of the market in the EU, then just dump Pentax. Simples. If Pentax want the market, they should make an effort and price themselves accordingly for it, or change distributors - whatever it takes.

Edit: ok, having read your PM I understand what you are comparing. But just comparing f stops isn't enough. So you can't really compare the Canon 24mm 2.8 to the DA 15 f4 because one is an entry level lens, the other is a premium lens. The market placement comparison would be DA 15 f4 vs Canon 24mm f1.4, which is their premium 24mm. Canon chose to make their premium lens big and fast, Pentax chose small and slow. It's what I was saying earlier - it's just a different philosophy and people who want big and fast should go Canon.

Unfortunately Pentax doesn't have entry level wide angle primes, something I've pointed out many times... it's a hole in the lineup IMHO. A "plastic wide-tastic" 17,18,or 19mm f/2.8 would appease that need, for sure, I think Or even the optics of the old 20 2.8 in a plastic DA shell, would be very well received, I'm sure! The FA version of the 20 2.8 is still priced very high...

Last edited by ChristianRock; 03-20-2014 at 12:12 PM.
03-20-2014, 12:27 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by dfujevec Quote
In september 2011 I went FF Canon and yes I still think that Pentax lenses in EU are way overpriced. They are small, but they are small because they are slow. If I want small system I will buy micro 3/4 and I will have small system and still fast lenses.
Yeah, something like Canon 50/1.8 vs Pentax DA50/1.8

Clearly, the Pentax is a lot slower.

03-20-2014, 12:49 PM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
ElJamoquio, I've seen you doing the comparison before, and it's a bit of apples vs. oranges. You say that because one Nikon full frame zoom gives you the quality of several Pentax primes in one lens, therefore Nikon is cheaper. Sorry but I just can't accept that kind of reasoning.
D600+24-85 was cheaper (and slightly faster, tad longer, and very slighter shorter, and slightly lighter, and with vastly higher 'top end' upgrade potential) than the K-3 + 16-50 last time I checked.

In my personal life, I expected to purchase a bunch of (cheaper than Pentax but still expensive) primes. I didn't have to. I expected to pay for FF + primes, which is cheaper than APS-C + primes for me. I ended up paying for FF + zoom, which is cheaper than both both APS-C + primes and APS-C + zoom.

My personal life is easy to dismiss. Doesn't matter, the Nikon was cheaper.
03-20-2014, 01:18 PM   #141
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A D600? That's no bad cam for sure, but somehow (dunno really why) I can't get excited by a castrated body (which it indeed is).
And yes I know that the castrated D600 isn't much much less than a non castrated K-3 (read what you will between the lines, this is half an autocritic...).
03-20-2014, 02:26 PM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
A D600? That's no bad cam for sure, but somehow (dunno really why) I can't get excited by a castrated body (which it indeed is).
And yes I know that the castrated D600 isn't much much less than a non castrated K-3 (read what you will between the lines, this is half an autocritic...).
Castrated in what way? It's a vastly more capable cam than most of really need. Only a few years ago any kind of cam with these specs was a dream.

FWIW I've just spent an enjoyable day shooting a K series MF prime (50 bucks or so) on manual. How many gizmos are essential? A D610 is surely tempting; where I live, that and 2-3 primes is no more than a K3 (or Fuji or Olympus TOTL body) and similar.
03-20-2014, 02:51 PM - 1 Like   #143
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I know the D600 is enough for most people (and would be for me), but it's the entry level FF, and it's being compared with the best APS-C camera on the market today.

The entry level APS-C from Pentax is the K500.

It's like complaining that a bare-bones BMW 3-series is cheaper than a full-featured, luxury packaged Chevrolet Impala, and saying the Chevy is overpriced. Well, yeah, and some people would prefer the bare-bones BMW. It would certainly be faster. It's lighter, too, and might even be better on gas mileage. Others will see the Chevy as the perfectly comfortable car to take them to work where they can't exceed the speed limit much anyway. But the comparison is silly, just like comparing the cost of the D600 with the K3.

---------- Post added 03-20-14 at 05:56 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Yeah, something like Canon 50/1.8 vs Pentax DA50/1.8

Clearly, the Pentax is a lot slower.
You guys keep comparing aperture like that's the only thing that matters. If it is to you, then fine, I guess.

The Pentax is a much better lens, IMHO.

03-20-2014, 03:09 PM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
You guys keep comparing aperture like that's the only thing that matters. If it is to you, then fine, I guess.

The Pentax is a much better lens, IMHO.
I bash Nikon all the time. Terrible UI, Terrible UI, overly-big primes, terrible UI.

But I compare UI, lens range, camera+lens weight, camera + lens aperture, camera+lens viewfinder, etc, etc, etc. I think boiling that down to "comparing aperture...only" is quite a strawman.

FYI I've owned both and I'd pay twice as much for the Nikon 24-85 as I would for the Pentax 16-50.

One man's opinion.
03-20-2014, 07:12 PM   #145
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El Jamoquio, that comment wasn't a straw man because it wasn't directed at you at all… it was for thins, who said that the 50 1.8 from Canon is cheaper than the Pentax… and it is, but they're very different lenses, even if it says 50 1.8 on both of them.
That is what I was referring to.

Regarding the 16-50, I kind of agree with you. It's not a lens that I'd like to have - not for anywhere near the asking price. I'd much rather find a good copy of the Tamron 17-50 if I was into zooms.
04-01-2014, 08:42 AM   #146
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Price announced!

$790 sometime in May.

Sigma's Unbelievable Price Tag for its Upcoming 50mm f/1.4 Art Lens: $790 - DIY Photography
04-01-2014, 09:07 AM   #147
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Let's level here. The FA and F 50 lenses (1.4 and 1.7) are going to offer about 90%+ the performance that this Sigma will for 1/3 the price and 1/5 the size.
04-01-2014, 10:40 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by MadMathMind Quote
Let's level here. The FA and F 50 lenses (1.4 and 1.7) are going to offer about 90%+ the performance that this Sigma will for 1/3 the price and 1/5 the size.
As they say, after you've passed what is an acceptable product quality level with pretty much any industry, you start paying 95% per cent more for every 5% increase in quality.

Having said that, I'm waiting for someone to say they get images just as good from their 30 dollar M 50 1.7

Seriously though, the new Sigma has the exact same price point as the DA*55. Let's see how they compare.
04-01-2014, 11:17 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
As they say, after you've passed what is an acceptable product quality level with pretty much any industry, you start paying 95% per cent more for every 5% increase in quality.
More like 1,095% more, as we see with Leica.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Having said that, I'm waiting for someone to say they get images just as good from their 30 dollar M 50 1.7
Using a tripod for both you might.
04-01-2014, 01:05 PM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
More like 1,095% more, as we see with Leica.
I live in the US, so at first I thought you meant "over a thousand per cent"
But you're right, law of diminishing returns says when you get to that kind of cost, you might be getting improvements, maybe... and it's a strong maybe...

QuoteQuote:
Using a tripod for both you might.
Well I'm sure the Sigma will do better at the MTF chart, tripod or not... but in the hands of a good photographer, either lens would get the results, I'm sure.
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