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01-19-2014, 10:04 PM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I understand. Here are some areas in which Pentax products do not lead among DSLR manufacturers: lens performance, lens variety, auto focus, and video recording. ....That, in my opinion, counts as poor support.
Almost 40 years of K-mount development and accumulated user expectations cannot be resolved in three years. Although we all agree, more or less so, about the issues you have raised, there must be some understanding about the circumstances and realistic expectations.
And there must also be some leeway allowed to the company itself, if nothing else but out of respect, to develop ideas that may be even better than our own.

01-19-2014, 11:14 PM   #77
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Hmm, no FF, next generation of APS-C will be after 10 years... I am too old for such things and officially starting to consider other brands!
01-20-2014, 12:40 AM - 2 Likes   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by bvg Quote
Hmm, no FF, next generation of APS-C will be after 10 years... I am too old for such things and officially starting to consider other brands!
Have fun with that. If you go read their brand forums, they all have their problems, just different from Pentax's problems

It seems to me that the question that everyone needs to answer is - what am I trying to do with my photography?

If you need certain specialist kit to take make certain images, and Pentax doesn't supply that kit, then Pentax is not the system for you. That is the simple answer.

For me personally, as an enthusiastic amateur photographer - I still have so much to learn, and I am enjoying learning on my Pentax. So I am happy. I also enjoy the discussion - so I am still happy. I am fortunate enough to live in one of the most peaceful, prosperous and scenic countries in the world - so I am even more happy.
01-20-2014, 01:54 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
I think it's nice that Ron was able to have such a long conversation, and to report in such detail. However, I didn't see anything in it that resembled a plan, or any evidence of moves in a positive direction. I saw the same things they've been saying for years..."we're thinking about doing this, we're looking into doing that, we're talking about maybe researching the possibility of considering this..." I didn't see (if I recall correctly) a single thing that indicated that an action (outside of research) has been taken, of any kind whatsoever. Literally.

I also heard a lot of reasons why they can't be successful, which is loser talk. Maybe they will stay in business, but it is hard to imagine them ever being the leaders of anything. Other than incremental spec-sheet leads. It seems like they act primarily out of fear. Amidst the sea of different, and arguably innovative photography products that have come out in the last 5 years, Almost none of them have had the Pentax name. The ones that have been Pentax products, such as the Q, have been very, very poorly supported.
Some time ago Kitazawa-san (IIRC) said something like "we're experimenting with LED lights for flashes"; and not long after, the 36- and 540 FGZ IIs were launched. Those are not empty words. But it's easy to consider them so, dismissing them when they're said and forgetting when they're done.

Loser talk? Really? Admitting there are difficulties, identifying and working on them is a winning strategy (unless one has to bury his head in the sand in order to "lead"). Besides, if this summary lacks one thing, that's quotes. Indeed, we can't read what Ricoh Imaging actually said; but a condensed summary filled with the author's thought - whose words are "loser talk"? It appears to me that most talk about those issues are pushed by the author.

The K-3 is no incremental spec-sheets product, by the way; and it's pretty innovative. Wait, innovative means old technology in retro clothes these days

01-20-2014, 02:26 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
The Japanese website was quite amazing up to a year or so ago,
with medium-format film cameras (645N, 67) being offered for the "professional" market.
They still list the 645NII! (note that unlike the 67, it's not marked as discontinued). They also still list e.g. FA20-35 - but it's no longer in their PDF brochure. Seems easy enough to find in online shops, though, e.g. Rakuten: Pentax FA20-35mmF4 AL- Shopping Japanese products from Japan
01-20-2014, 02:51 AM   #81
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To the question : why have they stopped production of the FA 20-35mm ?
answer 1 => quality standard inapropriate to digital FF ?
answer 2 => too expensive in production ?
answer 3 => no FF forthcomming ?
01-20-2014, 03:10 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Store depletion

To the question : why have they stopped production of the FA 20-35mm ?
answer 1 => quality standard inapropriate to digital FF ?
answer 2 => too expensive in production ?
answer 3 => no FF forthcomming ?
Perhaps (1)? Since the place it's still listed on their web page is in the film camera section?
01-20-2014, 03:20 AM   #83
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It was launched in 1998, some 16 years ago.

01-20-2014, 03:25 AM - 1 Like   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Store depletion

To the question : why have they stopped production of the FA 20-35mm ?
answer 1 => quality standard inapropriate to digital FF ?
answer 2 => too expensive in production ?
answer 3 => no FF forthcomming ?
Well we have DA 20-40mm/f2.8-4 HD Ltd lens now, so pulling the old one isn't such a strange thing.

(there is no point in talking about lenses for FF as long as there is no FF in production. So speculating about pulling out a lens from 1998 and connecting it to something yet to come is pointless.)
01-20-2014, 03:34 AM - 1 Like   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
So if you were Ricoh, and had to invest to gain market share, what would you do?
Excellent question!

I would get Pentax their sense of direction back and stick with it this time. And get some guts to go with it. Who knows what "the Pentax speciality" currently is? If you ask this to 30 different Pentaxians you get 30 different answers depending on which date they joined Pentax.

Just an example. In my case it was the high quality, durability and affordability in a small package. They were long famed for that. But suddenly they stopped all progress in that area. Who would have guessed Pentax would let that niche be taken over by a different brand? But now you can carry a complete full frame system in your jacket pocket, whilst the APS-C camera of the brand that is know for its compactness needs to be carried seperately. The old Pentax would never pass on a niche that fitted them like a glove.

Other users remember Pentax for being THE standard in quality. Others again for being THE mainstream camera. And some for them being the most innovitive. More recently they are known for their fun colours and gimmick gear. It's like they're shooting in all kinds of directions but keep abandoning before they even see if it works.


QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I find it interesting that there are folks here who got impatient with Pentax and bought a D800 or similar to get what they wanted. Now with the K-3 that decision is in question.
Is it? The K-3 has high IQ... but not the highest. It is compact... but not the most compact. It's innovative, but not the most innovative. It has a good bang for the buck, but not the best. It's a very very conservative camera. It's a K-5 with buffed up features. Don't get me wrong though, I love it, it's very good, but so was (and still is) the K-5 classic! The current Pentax gear only really shines in one feature that shows Pentax current course: indecisiveness.


QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
It is about taking very nice pictures. Nothing more nothing less. And for Pentax Ricoh to sell you and me what I want to take those nice pictures. Every time I hear someone from Ricoh or Pentax talk, I understand that they get that.
Actions speak louder then talk. The Q and its lens cap lens or toy lens surely don't represent the need to take very nice pictures. Neither does the K-50 in thousands of colours. Very high IQ lenses certainly would though. And so would increased resolution, format and mobility.

Last edited by Clavius; 01-20-2014 at 04:11 AM.
01-20-2014, 03:50 AM   #86
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K-3, with 200 000 actuations can keep for ever, or for 4-5 years, or for 120 minutes of timelapse.

I didn't see anywhere an official statement about a 4-5 years renew cycle. Not even in this Ron's discussion. And K-3 is the only new technology camera made under Ricoh ownership. We have no real clues to point at a 4-5 years renew cycle. Instead, we have K-5II and K-5IIs in 2012, K-50 and K-500 in 2013.. So, I think is premature to jump to such a conclusion, not to say it is totally wrong.

Some new cameras are strictly necessary from many reasons. First, more people are interested in good video capable cameras. Second, all DSLR Pentax cameras except K-3 are based on 4 years old technologies. Third, a brand with a renew cycle of 4-5 years for all their cameras will surely die.

That does not mean that I, or anybody have to change his camera every year. For instance, I'm still thinking about buying a K-3, or waiting for a more video capable version of it.

Last edited by JimmyDranox; 01-20-2014 at 03:58 AM.
01-20-2014, 03:57 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
K-3, with 200 000 actuations can keep for ever, or for 4-5 years, or for 120 minute of timelapse.

I didn't see anywhere an official statement about a 4-5 years renew cycle. Not even in this Ron's discussion. And K-3 is the only new technology camera made under Ricoh ownership. We have no real clues to point at a 4-5 years renew cycle. Instead, we have K-5II and K-5IIs in 2012, K-50 and K-500 in 2013.. So, I think is premature to jump to such a conclusion, not to say it is totally wrong.

Some new cameras are strictly necessary from many reasons. First, more people are interested in good video capable cameras. Second, all DSLR Pentax cameras except K-3 are based on 3 years old technologies. Third, a brand with a renew cycle of 4-5 years for all their cameras will surely die.

That does not mean that I, or anybody have to change his camera every year. For instance, I'm still thinking about buying a K-3, or waiting for a more video capable version of it.
Nobody here has suggested that there was an official statement to that effect, but if you double the shutter life of a body, all other things being equal, you'll double the life of the camera. Now, that's either the result of a marketing push to create a unique selling proposition, an expectation that the rate of picture taking is going to increase, or an acceptance that the product cycle is going to lengthen.
01-20-2014, 04:09 AM   #88
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Don't forget that K-3 has dedicated settings for timelapse. So, 200 000 can be a small number.
01-20-2014, 04:33 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Don't forget that K-3 has dedicated settings for timelapse. So, 200 000 can be a small number.
Do you need to press a shutter release button for each time-lapse shot? Or for each fps out of 8.3 in a second when in continuous shooting mode? Damn, you are quick — a smoking finger!
01-20-2014, 04:35 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
They still list the 645NII! (note that unlike the 67, it's not marked as discontinued). They also still list e.g. FA20-35 - but it's no longer in their PDF brochure. Seems easy enough to find in online shops, though, e.g. Rakuten: Pentax FA20-35mmF4 AL- Shopping Japanese products from Japan
For Japanese market, they will produce M42 Takumars if someone's asking.
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